THE ULTIMATE DISCORDIAN TROLL THREAD

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm really going to have to work hard to redeem myself now, aren't I?

-SHS,
digging myself to china

I'm starting to think that isn't your intention.

And I'm starting to think maybe it should be. All self-deprecating humour aside, the people here seem worth associating with.

Then why are you doing your level best to alienate everyone?

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

I'm not saying the addictive property of power is theoretically impossible to resist. All I'm saying is that in 2million years of human evolution it's never happened yet.

It's all that damned agriculture!
\


I'm not a big Jared Diamond fan.  However, lately, I've been wondering what might have happened if technological development had been given ample lead-time to achieve its modern level of sophistication within a hunter-gather society, rather than the agriculturally based communities which achieved dominance and led to the rise of city-states.  If homo sapiens had not settled down, is it possible that they might have laid the groundwork for non-hierarchical society, and if so, what do you suppose it might be like?  How might technology have manifested differently, in light of modern-day insights into the exponential nature of technological and computational development (or would these trends still apply in a non-hierarchical world)?

I'd really like to read any relevant material that touches on these questions/ideas, if anyone would be kind enough to recommend.  Specifically, I'm interested in the possibilities of engineering a non-hierarchical society, quite distinct from an "anarchical" society.  A non-hierarchical society which utilized modern technology would probably also look quite different than the few existing hunter-gatherer societies left in the world today, but I imagine there might be some interesting similarities.    

I like to think of this in contrast with a particularly useful metaphor which I've seen thrown around here before... something about throwing sand in the gears of the System instead of a wrench.  Is it possible to ever truly destroy society's dominant heirarchical structures from within, given enough of the right kind of sand?  I personally experience a satisfying degree of disconnect from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living the more that I become involved with the work/play that I do, the more I feel that it is an end unto itself, and I'm curious as to whether anyone else has had any thoughts about how to encourage this in a large enough way that it could actually upset the dominant heirarchical nature of modern society, or what possible factors could lead to such an upset.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Um, the agricultural revolution IS technology.

[P3nT4gR4m]

I'm not saying the addictive property of power is theoretically impossible to resist. All I'm saying is that in 2million years of human evolution it's never happened yet.

It's all that damned agriculture!
\


I'm not a big Jared Diamond fan.  However, lately, I've been wondering what might have happened if technological development had been given ample lead-time to achieve its modern level of sophistication within a hunter-gather society, rather than the agriculturally based communities which achieved dominance and led to the rise of city-states.  If homo sapiens had not settled down, is it possible that they might have laid the groundwork for non-hierarchical society, and if so, what do you suppose it might be like?  How might technology have manifested differently, in light of modern-day insights into the exponential nature of technological and computational development (or would these trends still apply in a non-hierarchical world)?

I'd really like to read any relevant material that touches on these questions/ideas, if anyone would be kind enough to recommend.  Specifically, I'm interested in the possibilities of engineering a non-hierarchical society, quite distinct from an "anarchical" society.  A non-hierarchical society which utilized modern technology would probably also look quite different than the few existing hunter-gatherer societies left in the world today, but I imagine there might be some interesting similarities.     

I like to think of this in contrast with a particularly useful metaphor which I've seen thrown around here before... something about throwing sand in the gears of the System instead of a wrench.  Is it possible to ever truly destroy society's dominant heirarchical structures from within, given enough of the right kind of sand?  I personally experience a satisfying degree of disconnect from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living the more that I become involved with the work/play that I do, the more I feel that it is an end unto itself, and I'm curious as to whether anyone else has had any thoughts about how to encourage this in a large enough way that it could actually upset the dominant heirarchical nature of modern society, or what possible factors could lead to such an upset.

1) Who the fuck are you?

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

[President Television]

I'm really going to have to work hard to redeem myself now, aren't I?

-SHS,
digging myself to china

I'm starting to think that isn't your intention.

And I'm starting to think maybe it should be. All self-deprecating humour aside, the people here seem worth associating with.

Then why are you doing your level best to alienate everyone?

What I'm trying to say is that I'm putting a stop to all that bullshit right now. It was a bit fun at first, but it's really getting old for all parties involved, I think.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I'm really going to have to work hard to redeem myself now, aren't I?

-SHS,
digging myself to china

I'm starting to think that isn't your intention.

And I'm starting to think maybe it should be. All self-deprecating humour aside, the people here seem worth associating with.

Then why are you doing your level best to alienate everyone?

What I'm trying to say is that I'm putting a stop to all that bullshit right now. It was a bit fun at first, but it's really getting old for all parties involved, I think.

It was old when you started doing it.

Or do you believe you're the very first person to come along and try to "mindfuck" the Discordians?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

2) I think it'll happen naturally as our race matures. Disconnecting "from the chain-of-command mode of thinking and living" is a natural and logical next step.

Um, what the hell gives you THAT idea?  We're still the monkeys we were 2000 years ago.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Not all of us. Some of us are more and more aware of our poop-fixation and thats a half step to getting over it.

[Cramulus]

if there's no hierarchy, no chain of command, whose back is gonna be up against the wall when the revolution comes?


leaders give us somebody to blame. And lynch. I fear what would happen in a non-representative democracy, where the majority rules with an iron fist.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not all of us. Some of us are more and more aware of our poop-fixation and thats a half step to getting over it.

So a few monkeys wake up.  That's happened before.  I think they called it "The Enlightenment".

And here we are today, free as birds.  

[P3nT4gR4m]

if there's no hierarchy, no chain of command, whose back is gonna be up against the wall when the revolution comes?


leaders give us somebody to blame. And lynch. I fear what would happen in a non-representative democracy, where the majority rules with an iron fist.

The headless fascist! You thought Hitler was bad? Wait'll you get a load of the next one 

[P3nT4gR4m]

Not all of us. Some of us are more and more aware of our poop-fixation and thats a half step to getting over it.

So a few monkeys wake up.  That's happened before.  I think they called it "The Enlightenment".

And here we are today, free as birds.  

Patience old chap. Rome wasn't built in a day. 

[President Television]

It was old when you started doing it.

Or do you believe you're the very first person to come along and try to "mindfuck" the Discordians?

Not by any means. I knew that you knew what I was doing. I wasn't trying to mindfuck. I thought everyone knew I was joking. I guess I was wrong. Anyway, I'm done with it. It doesn't matter at this point.

[Vaudeville Vigilante]

Um, the agricultural revolution IS technology.

Well, yes... this is the generally accepted paradigm... I guess I'm trying to jump out of it for a sec, and picture a technological society which did not rely on sedentary agriculture from the onset.  Is it truly not possible somewhere in the grand universe of universes, that out there somewhere a shit load of disorganized creative freaks have evolved a more advanced non-hierarchical society than we have observed in human history?  The agricultural revolution caused a very drastic change in human habits, but was it necessary for technological progress, or has it just become more convenient to think of it that way?  In the same way that discordians and subgenii, or artists and musicians, have been capable of organizing grandiose creative projects without a necessary chain of command, so in turn am I imagining technological progress, if it had happened differently, or perhaps if indeed it begins to happen differently.  The interwebs has arguably become a strong enabler for decentralization.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not all of us. Some of us are more and more aware of our poop-fixation and thats a half step to getting over it.

So a few monkeys wake up.  That's happened before.  I think they called it "The Enlightenment".

And here we are today, free as birds.  

Patience old chap. Rome wasn't built in a day. 

And there has been no evolutionary drive to change monkey wiring.  Quite the opposite, in fact.