Ft. hOOd

[Golden Applesauce]

It's being started by the "masses" who've been calling in to these talk shows.

Oh, there was also some dumbfuck congresswoman.  Lemme see if I can find--

Ah, yes.

http://www.suemyrick.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=6229

She's an outstanding American.  Someone should give her an award or something. 

Myrick's 10-point plan

1. Investigate all military chaplains endorsed by Abdurahman Alamoudi, who was imprisoned for funding a terrorist organization.

2. Investigate all prison chaplains endorsed by Alamoudi.

3. Investigate the selection process of Arabic translators working for the Pentagon and FBI.

4. Examine the nonprofit status of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

5. Make it an act of sedition or solicitation of treason to preach or publish materials that call for the deaths of Americans.

6. Audit sovereign wealth funds in the United States.

7. Cancel scholarship student visa program with Saudi Arabia until they reform their text books, which she claims preach hatred and violence against non-Muslims.

8. Restrict religious visas for imams who come from countries that don't allow reciprocal visits by non-Muslim clergy.

9. Cancel contracts to train Saudi police and security in U.S. counterterrorism tactics.

10. Block the sale of sensitive military munitions to Saudi Arabia

#1, 2 - Somebody we don't like liking you is probable cause that you're a terrorist.
#3 - We're not having a hard enough time as it is finding Arabic translators
#4 - Politically/religiously motivated ignorance and hatred must first destroy groups that preach knowledge and tolerance!
#5 - Jail everyone who ever expressed support for the death penalty.
#7 - Fuck over students (our country's and their country's) because of something they have no control over.
#8 - ???
#9, 10 - Make sure that when we go to war against Iran, Saudi Arabia is on their side.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

1,2 and 5 don't seem terribly unreasonable... the rest are just badwrong.

If you live in America, particularly as a legal alien resident and you say loudly in public that Americans should die... I don't think that is acceptable. If you want to say it while living in some other country, that's your thing... But, if you're a guest in a country and say that they should all DIAF, I don't think you should get to stick around. I don't get why some people have a problem with that.

I'm not OK with a Christian preaching that we should "Kill the Gays" or praising that asshole who shot the abortion doctor... so why would I be OK with a Muslim preaching the same sort of hate? In fact, wouldn't #5 cover that kind of Fred Phelps BS?

[Golden Applesauce]

slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?

I dunno... shooting a room full of unarmed men that believe you to be on their side... at home, while they're filling out paperwork.... that's not exactly opposing armies. The real questions is will the act cause Terror among civilians... and among the military. I heard an interview with an active duty soldier last night. She said that she doesn't think every Muslim soldier is a threat, but she will now consider the possibility every time she is stationed with one... "Case by case basis" she said... "but, you know, I have to suspect that some of them might..."

Getting the armed forces to lose trust in each other is a pretty good "terrorist" result. turning the teaming masses of Americans into "OMGZ TEH MOSLEMS ARE IN OUR MILITARY, SHOOTIN OUR DUDES" lolcivilians is a pretty good result for 'terror' as well.

And as far as I know, the Military are not equally protected in their private conversations, the way civilians are. In the case of Hasan, the report claimed that the FBI came across him, while investigating the Imam.

Only time will tell if this guy was just crazy, or crazy and indoctrinated with very bad Dogma (as opposed to bad Dogma which mostl religious people seem infected with, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or Pagan).

An opposing army is an opposing army regardless of what they're doing.  When Japan dropped bombs all over a military base that wasn't really doing much, we called that an act of war.  The loss of trust that you describe is a good result for a PsyOps operation in general, although only if they wanted increased discrimination and violence against Muslims and anybody who could be mistaken for one by an idiot with a baseball bat.

With regards to the military not getting the same protections in conversation - I guess that makes sense, but I still think this will be used to justify more encroachment on the civil rights of ordinary citizens.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

slap me if someone already said this- but isn't it NOT terrorism if it's against our military?
it has to be against civilians, right?

I dunno... shooting a room full of unarmed men that believe you to be on their side... at home, while they're filling out paperwork.... that's not exactly opposing armies. The real questions is will the act cause Terror among civilians... and among the military. I heard an interview with an active duty soldier last night. She said that she doesn't think every Muslim soldier is a threat, but she will now consider the possibility every time she is stationed with one... "Case by case basis" she said... "but, you know, I have to suspect that some of them might..."

Getting the armed forces to lose trust in each other is a pretty good "terrorist" result. turning the teaming masses of Americans into "OMGZ TEH MOSLEMS ARE IN OUR MILITARY, SHOOTIN OUR DUDES" lolcivilians is a pretty good result for 'terror' as well.

And as far as I know, the Military are not equally protected in their private conversations, the way civilians are. In the case of Hasan, the report claimed that the FBI came across him, while investigating the Imam.

Only time will tell if this guy was just crazy, or crazy and indoctrinated with very bad Dogma (as opposed to bad Dogma which mostl religious people seem infected with, be they Muslim, Christian, Jew or Pagan).

An opposing army is an opposing army regardless of what they're doing.  When Japan dropped bombs all over a military base that wasn't really doing much, we called that an act of war.  The loss of trust that you describe is a good result for a PsyOps operation in general, although only if they wanted increased discrimination and violence against Muslims and anybody who could be mistaken for one by an idiot with a baseball bat.

With regards to the military not getting the same protections in conversation - I guess that makes sense, but I still think this will be used to justify more encroachment on the civil rights of ordinary citizens.

I think the rules say an opposing army is an opposing army if they're wearing a different outfit... you know, cause everyone follows the rules when it comes to war... except... well anyone that actually fights in a war.

However... in this case, I think either:

A) He lost his marbles and this is a tragic act of Crazy
B) He somehow became indoctrinated with an extremist viewpoint and it could be considered either Terrorism or Treason or an act of war... committed by a lone individual.
C) He somehow became indoctrinated with an extremist viewpoint and collaborated with other extremists. In which case it would probably be terrorism and treason and an act of war... and a conspiracy.

I don't want to label it an act of war, because the only defining factor that would make him part of the "other army" is his religion... which suddenly means the enemy is the religion, rather than a pack of crazy extremists that are just running around blowing shit up and causing general chaos.

[Kai]

My personal opinion is that it was a tragic act of crazy. I'm actually surprised we don't see more of this sort of thing.

[LMNO]

So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?

More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?

More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?

Not the point, LMNO.  Point is, it's the beginning of a century, so we HAVE to have a big conflict.  The monkeys want an excuse to fight and howl and beat their chests.  Logic and reason have nothing whatsoever to do with this, and we're not going to be happy until we kill 55+ million monkeys.  It's on rails, LMNO, and there's nothing you or I can do about it.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?

More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?

Well... I wouldn't classify this as a Friendly Fire freakout... Friendly Fire means it was an accident.

However, you're spot on with the Oklahoma City bit.

And fuck TGRR, that's a scary good point as well.

[Elder Iptuous]

So, during the Oklahoma City Bombing, did anyone suddenly consider that the Christians were attacking the country?

More to the point, during any friendly-fire military freakout, did poeple voice concerns if the soldier's religion was anything other than muslim?

but there were claims that he shouted 'alahu akbar' at the incident (whether or not he did, i dunno)
did anybody claim that Timmy shouted, 'Praise Jeebus' when he hit the button?

Iptuous,
hasn't actually dug into this story or anything...

[AFK]

They were both delusional crazy fucks who may or may not have been clouded by their religion, but in the end, were two delusional crazy fucks.  It wasn't their fucked up religion, it was their fucked up brains.  There are plenty of idiots who run around this rock with insane, irrational views of the world and religion.  Yet, most of them are able to contain that and NOT shoot people.  All this jabbering about religion in the media is bullshit.  It doesn't matter.  It's just conflating what seems to be an obvious case of a guy who just plain went mouth-frothing nuts and decided the only way to make his brain feel better was to shoot up some people. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

, most of them are able to contain that and NOT shoot people. 

Except for twice a century or so, when EVERYONE gets in on the act.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

They were both delusional crazy fucks who may or may not have been clouded by their religion, but in the end, were two delusional crazy fucks.  It wasn't their fucked up religion, it was their fucked up brains.  There are plenty of idiots who run around this rock with insane, irrational views of the world and religion.  Yet, most of them are able to contain that and NOT shoot people.  All this jabbering about religion in the media is bullshit.  It doesn't matter.  It's just conflating what seems to be an obvious case of a guy who just plain went mouth-frothing nuts and decided the only way to make his brain feel better was to shoot up some people. 

hrmmm....

But surely there are different levels of Dogma... the Dogma of Fred Phelps is not the same as the dogma of the local Methodist church. They may both have dogma which provides them with insane irrational religious views... but the Phelps dogma seems more likely to leave shrapnel and ruts which could push someone in the direction of mass murder, shooting abortion doctors etc.

The same seems true in Islam. Anyone that chooses to believe the religion is likely gonna have some silly and irrational beliefs.... but the ones that are interacting with the more extreme interpretations of Islam seem to be getting shrapnel and ruts that are aiming them in a bad direction.

A straight up crazy person could open fire in a building full of other humans. I don't think its gonna do any good to focus on the religion as the cause... but if (and who knows right now) IF he was indoctrinated with extreme views, then we have to consider that those views may have impacted his decisions. He's still a crazy monkey that shot other monkeys... but bad Dogma is bad.

Remember how everyone was upset that George Tiller's murderer had been a FOX news freak an O'RLY fan and a dittohead? Sure the freak was responsible for his own horrific actions, but the shrapnel and paths were surely affected by the dogma he was indoctrinated with.

Hate is hate and preaching hate, be it from a Pastor, Imam or TV Personality does seem to impact the behavior of some humans. Their fucked up brains made it possible, but the Dogma surely helped push them along...

Of course, Hasan is still an unknown, we will have to wait and see if he was indoctrinated with extreme dogmatic views, or if he just lost his shit after dealing with years of broken and busted comrades.

[Kai]

Maybe the sort of people who join religious communities with insane irrational religious views do so because they are insane and irrational*.

It's tautological.

*Clarifying that all humans are irrational.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Maybe the sort of people who join religious communities with insane irrational religious views do so because they are insane and irrational*.

It's tautological.

*Clarifying that all humans are irrational.

That seems quite plausible... or at least they had some experiences in the past which led to them viewing insane irrational religious views as good/normal/sane/rational.

I suppose that I keep harping on religious views affecting people, because that's what I experienced myself. It is still stunning to look back at my previous life and see what I thought was "normal". I suppose I should equate my experiences with guys like Hasan, but IF he was crazy and influenced by crazy dogmatic beliefs, I feel more sorry for him than if he is just crazy. That's probably not very rational.

[Kai]

all humans are irrational