From a Letter

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I very much strongly think, that if there is a place, where dreams go to die, and people go to get broken and grinded into submission...

it is school.

Yes, because we need more illiterate people.

[The Johnny]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

[Template]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

And survival is everything you could ever want?

Also, I think you meant, "I think I could survive," in your post.  Is that so?

[Chief Uwachiquen]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

It might not be important to you but for some it really is. How the hell else would we get people to do work in fields that require those square roots or chemical compounds? High school just kind of throws information at you and you sift through it and figure out what parts from high school were the most important and take that with you to college, I think. Sometimes when you get to college you change your mind entirely. And for some people, the most important part of high school is just getting the hell out of it. High school isn't tailor made for each student so the knowledge they teach you has to be broad, not in depth. And it doesn't work for every person, a system that broad can't for everyone, but for the most part it doesn't. It didn't for me, personally. I ended up dropping out partially due to what was going on in my life at the time. I was going through a lot and I ended up just kind of withdrawing because I was temporarily out of my god damned skull. And no, not the OH MAH GAH, I'M CRAZEH. I took my Uncle's (One of my "Dads") death incredibly hard. I Got my GED within three months and went to college about a year later, though. But that's kind of beside the point and I'm getting off topic.

I think what I'm trying to say is that even if it wasn't that important for you, I'm sure for others it was. Not everyone. I personally don't have the mind for Math past a certain point. But I do know that I use damn dirty Algebra just about every god damn day. >_< Physics didn't click for me, largely because I had trouble remembering all of the formulas. English, though. English clicked for me at a very young age and I've been constantly on the prowl for fun and interesting new ways to use language. And History lessons. I used to HATE history back when I was in elementary school but for some reason, part way through high-school, I just couldn't get enough of history. I remember one time when I was a kid I asked "Why do I need to know history? I mean, it's already done and over with, right?". I wish i could go back in time and tell myself to stop being a retard. But I'm off topic again. I'm fairly certain that means I've said everything I was trying to, right then.

[The Johnny]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

And survival is everything you could ever want?

Also, I think you meant, "I think I could survive," in your post.  Is that so?

Italics = sarcasm

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

Yes, so let's just abandon all math and scientific knowledge, because we can trust our leaders with that sort of stuff.

[The Johnny]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

It might not be important to you but for some it really is. How the hell else would we get people to do work in fields that require those square roots or chemical compounds? High school just kind of throws information at you and you sift through it and figure out what parts from high school were the most important and take that with you to college, I think. Sometimes when you get to college you change your mind entirely. And for some people, the most important part of high school is just getting the hell out of it. High school isn't tailor made for each student so the knowledge they teach you has to be broad, not in depth. And it doesn't work for every person, a system that broad can't for everyone, but for the most part it doesn't. It didn't for me, personally. I ended up dropping out partially due to what was going on in my life at the time. I was going through a lot and I ended up just kind of withdrawing because I was temporarily out of my god damned skull. And no, not the OH MAH GAH, I'M CRAZEH. I took my Uncle's (One of my "Dads") death incredibly hard. I Got my GED within three months and went to college about a year later, though. But that's kind of beside the point and I'm getting off topic.

I think what I'm trying to say is that even if it wasn't that important for you, I'm sure for others it was. Not everyone. I personally don't have the mind for Math past a certain point. But I do know that I use damn dirty Algebra just about every god damn day. >_< Physics didn't click for me, largely because I had trouble remembering all of the formulas. English, though. English clicked for me at a very young age and I've been constantly on the prowl for fun and interesting new ways to use language. And History lessons. I used to HATE history back when I was in elementary school but for some reason, part way through high-school, I just couldn't get enough of history. I remember one time when I was a kid I asked "Why do I need to know history? I mean, it's already done and over with, right?". I wish i could go back in time and tell myself to stop being a retard. But I'm off topic again. I'm fairly certain that means I've said everything I was trying to, right then.

I guess i should learn how to write in... whats it called? E-Prime?

I just think that broad education is fine, as long as its not crazy broad as it is now; theres this thing in society called specialization, which follows the principle of "the more you grab on to, the weaker your overall grasp" (i dont know the direct translation).

[The Johnny]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

Yes, so let's just abandon all math and scientific knowledge, because we can trust our leaders with that sort of stuff.

Johnyx,
          flogging himself from now on for not being good at a dozen disciplines.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

In my everyday life i think i couldnt survive without knowing how to square root, what chemical compounds make up orange juice or the theoretical knowledge to solve how many newtons are needed to push down on a spring.

Although, language skills i do agree are important.

Yes, so let's just abandon all math and scientific knowledge, because we can trust our leaders with that sort of stuff.

Johnyx,
          flogging himself from now on for not being good at a dozen disciplines.

Yes, because well-rounded educations are for stupid hippies.

[Dimocritus]

Yes, so let's just abandon all math and scientific knowledge, because we can trust our leaders with that sort of stuff.

Winner.

[Golden Applesauce]

Im fine with the basic knowledge things that are useful in general, but when it gets down to stuff like physics or carbon chemistry that you wont need or use, unless you go to college to study it, you wont ever run into it again.

Your body runs on carbon chemistry.  

Code Select Expand


   H
   |
R - C = O
   |
   H


See the above compound?  That's an aldehyde.  Note the strongly polar C = O bond and the relatively loosely pi electrons.  Those two factors combine to make aldehydes relatively strong electrophiles, with regrettable consequences to sensitive chemicals like DNA or certain proteins.  Aldehydes do all kinds of nasty things to your body, everything from cancer to birth defects to organ failure.  Fun!  Aldehydes used to be used to keep biology lab specimens preserved, until they cottoned on to the health risks.  Also, aldehydes are a metabolic product of alcohol, and are the main part of alcohol that leads to all the damaging health effects.

Carbon chemistry is fun and will help keep you alive - it's pretty difficult to understand the health effects of food if you don't understand what's in them.

[Cain]

The problem with judging education by utility is that you'd end up with a system that just teaches enough basic maths to survive with, enough English (or your own native language) to sign your own name, enough science not to sniff glue and very little else to the vast majority of the population.

I took advanced Philosophy, Biology, History and Spanish for my A levels.  Spanish aside, where obviously translations, tour guides etc are possible, most of these are not useful courses for the world of Most Work.  Being able to talk about British foreign policy between the wars, the inherent problems of Kantian deontology or the structure of the brain has never been useful in a single job I have done, and likely never will be (yes, even the first one).

The thing is, the modern business structure is essentially split between highly specialized experts in certain fields, managerial types, and then all the work that cannot be done by a robot.  The vast majority of today's work is work that cannot be done by a robot.  You don't need more than basic literacy and maths to sign a contract, or work on a production line, or serve people in a store.  And you don't need literature, or philosophy, or history, or the vast majority of subjects and knowledge most people have to be able to manage other people, or for most specialized fields (the sciences are of course an exception here, as is engineering and a few others).

But none of that really leads to a well-rounded person, does it?  Plus, education is a tool for control, and the more people learn, even about apparently useless things, the better. 

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

The flip side of that point of view, Cain, is that you don't just get hired because you have the skills. You also get hired for being a well-rounded person.  And I think a lot of that occurs not only through studying interesting subjects but also how the educational process tends to improve people's social skills and self-awareness.

Don't you think personality makes or breaks it when there are a ton of workers with fairly similar skills and experience?

[Scribbly]

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

I'm a big believer in the idea that people should have the opportunity to learn as much as possible, and it seems impossible to me to know what it is you would like to learn about in greater detail without getting a basic grounding in all the major areas. I think what school really does, more importantly than anything else, is teach you how to learn. It's certainly what I took away from it, more than anything else, and even if I don't tend to use advanced mathematics or the chemistry I learned in my day to day life, the skills I picked up learning those things I do use on a daily basis.

[Cain]

The flip side of that point of view, Cain, is that you don't just get hired because you have the skills. You also get hired for being a well-rounded person.  And I think a lot of that occurs not only through studying interesting subjects but also how the educational process tends to improve people's social skills and self-awareness.

Don't you think personality makes or breaks it when there are a ton of workers with fairly similar skills and experience?

True, this can help a lot, especially at the moment.

But the instrumentalist approach to education that I see often neglects this, and even then I think there are things still worth knowing on their own merit (DS posted the quote I had in mind at the early time of the morning I was writing).