"Stupid wingnut says something stupid" thread

[Fujikoma]

Hmmm... I think you may be on to something... However, this seems to contradict Al Gore's claim that he took initiative in creating the internet, so I'm a bit skeptical. Perhaps a time machine was involved?.. Since, as we all know, the internet is nothing more than a series of tubes, making it technologically possible (though likely difficult) even in that day, maybe there is something to that? I smell a conspiracy.

[AFK]

You should always be skeptical when it comes to Al Gore.  Dude lost to a baseball-owner, thinks he invented the internet, cries about global warming while racing around in jets, and, the worst crime against humanity, he and Tipper went against Twisted Sister.  D/N/T the Twisted Sister!

[Cain]

I still don't understand the Lincoln reference.

Really the only time I see Lincoln bought up randomly in political conversations is by wingnuts desperate to prove their party is not full of frothing racist lunatics by referencing a 150 year old presidency.  This also often involves mentioning Robert Byrd's membership in the KKK and the original positions of the Dixiecrats re: integration, and ignoring silly little things like where those Dixiecrats went after they left the Democrats and electoral ideas such as the Southern Strategy.

Not to say the Democrats don't also have their own fair share of racists, but they usually conserve their sociopathic desires to approving the actions of favoured client states (normally Israel, though historically Kosovo and Chechnya have also been favoured) instead of carrying out the racial agitation at home.

[Fujikoma]

The truth is, Cain, I was hoping to avoid answering the question, but, since it keeps coming up, best to stop putting it off. For a slight second there, my old knee-jerk political responses kicked in, mostly due to getting in arguments with both sides of the political spectrum. For a second, I forgot where I was, but recognized enough to see that I wouldn't have to spell everything out. Both republicans and democrats see me as a nut, though I'm working on the ways in which I interact with them, in order to have a better chance at actually making a point, rather than contributing to a pointless flame war. So yes, you called it right, I was attempting to defend the republicans, even though a lot of them are frothing, fanatical racists these days. It's a shame how some things change.

I have Libertarian tendencies, however, some of their ideas are just too idealistic IMO. And before you ask, I can't stand Ayn Rand. I thought she was awesome when I was in high school, but I realized after a few short years that there were huge, gaping holes in the way she presented her "philosophy", and likely the philosophy itself, for instance, there was a profound lack of empathy, she seemed to regard humans as robots, mere things, worth little more than what they were capable of accomplishing. Perhaps I was reading too much into it, but try as I might, I can't ignore my own empathy or sentimentality without becoming a deeply unhappy person.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

The really sad thing is that the next 10 years at least are going to be full of suck and fail for America. The economy is sinking, and progressive ideas for fixing it are off the table because of the American public's sudden obsession with "fiscal responsibility" and "deficit reduction." This means, of course, that the economy will continue to sink, if not crash again, and it will all be Obama's fault because he happens to be the President while the country gets carried away with this Tea Party crap and hangs itself. Nevermind that nobody will actually let Obama do what he wants to do (and what needs to be done).

And, since it's all Obama's fault, that means it's the Democrats' fault too. And along with the Democrats, we're going to blame compassion, sympathy, mercy anything else they stand for because if one Democrat fails (although he hasn't), all Democrats and everything they believe in must obviously be failures, too. Fuck.

So America is going to start in on this great big crusade to rid itself of social leeches like "the poor" (read: lazy), "the sick" (that is, the immoral), and "the intellectuals" (or, rather, the snooty liberal elites). Basically, so much for the last 75 years.

If you're wondering where this century is heading in terms of our standard of living and social freedoms, imagine the 20th Century in reverse.

[Fujikoma]

All the more reason to infiltrate them and steer them off that particular course. Tea party people I've spoken with over the internet tend to like me, and I get drunk as hell and tell them why I think they're wrong. I'm not quite certain it's quite so polarized, but you guys likely know better than I do.

I don't think it's Obama's fault. To tell you the truth, I found it odd how he said one thing and when he got into office, he did another. Was it some instantaneous enlightenment? I doubt it. He struck me as an actual idealist, as opposed to some kind of tool. I was impressed that he didn't take any of Soros's money and manage to win the primaries (Soros backed Hillary, while McCain accepted money from Soros (from what I've heard). Not only that, he won the election. It makes me think that the whitehouse is a place where they keep the president and his family hostage, and not necessarily that the flip-flopping that occurs on issues from the debates to the oval office is a result of political deception (though, that's the optimist in me speaking).

The last election was obviously a sham. I knew Obama would win, before the primaries were even over with. It was kind of funny. Was anyone paying attention to what that fat blowhard Rush Limbaugh was saying during the primaries? I sure was. Not only did McCain just ROLL over the miserable selection of candidates for the Republican party (it's like they didn't even try, I did like some of Ron Paul's ideas, but jumping head first into libertarianism seems almost as dangerous to me as jumping headfirst into worldwide socialist government), but RUSH LIMBAUGH told his listeners to GO TO THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES AND VOTE FOR OBAMA, JUST TO PISS HILLARY OFF. Something FUNNY is going on there. He tried to reverse his advice later, but the die had already been cast. Republican votes that might have made the republican primaries more interesting were going to Obama.

Do I blame democrats for Obama? No. Just like I don't blame all republicans for McCain, Bush, or the religious buttfucks that infest the party... But I do think it's time more people start questioning the left/right paradigm, and I think what's happening now, while it's scary and unstable, may actually, just possibly be a good thing.

Things I am inflexible on... Roads. We need them. They must stay public. Fuck anyone who says differently.

Welfare. We're responsible for this "entitlement culture", and until we can provide the means to gently guide people who have become dependent on this system back into the productive community, we're going to have to keep paying them. Some idiots don't realize the kind of armaggeddon that would be unleashed into the streets of America if we just stop sending out payments, or attempt to lower them.

Disability. It's terrible, I wish it weren't so, but there are those out there who are unable to either work, take care of themselves, or both. I'd recommend private charities, but it's likely most of them will come with strings attached that are simply unacceptable, possibly religious obligations... Also, we can't quite trust human generosity yet... I think people have it in them, but we, as a society, need to grow a bit before we'll be ready for any steps like that.

Safety standards. Dubai, anyone?

Public education. I support a school voucher program, just to shut those Christians up who think that evolution is the spawn of the devil. Then, they can't bitch when their kid comes home from a Christian school after learning evolution (I've heard they teach it in some of them). Public education is necessary. I'm not sure if atheists have opened private schools, but they should. I believe this would be an important step in keeping religion out of government, but, I'm not terribly certain it would work the other way around. I've read up on the pros and cons of school vouchers, I'm not certain it would be the best plan, but, to tell you the truth, I'm stumped. All this bitching and complaining has to have a stop put to it somehow. Public schools must stay open, be funded, and held to certain standards.

Mostly, the tea baggers are new to the scene, they're outraged, confused, they're just realizing that they got conned. Now, they're vulnerable. Best to inject some positive influence in there before they go completely off the rails, at the hands of some outrageous radical, more than likely... There's still likely a HUGE divide in their ranks, this could be played against them to remind the more radical where they stand.

And about socialism. I think it'd be great if it would work. Can it work? I don't know, but I'm not certain the federal level is the place to test it. I was thinking, if the case were made for state's rights, would it be possible that a self-sustaining community could vote itself socialist, up to the state level? Then, we could have socialism in some parts of the country, maybe lower their taxes so they could fund their own projects (no bailouts, though), Libertarian communities in others, and more middle of the road or totalitarian systems in place wherever the residents decide by consensus to put such local governments in place. That way, if you wanted to live under a certain system of government, you could apply for citizenship in another state. Is that just dumb?

Just my ignorant spouting off at the mouth. I'm interested in feedback, perhaps in another thread (to avoid spamming this one up), but please don't call me names, that's not productive, though I can handle it. I'll try not to respond with any more knee-jerk reactions.

[Doktor Howl]

The really sad thing is that the next 10 years at least are going to be full of suck and fail for America. The economy is sinking, and progressive ideas for fixing it are off the table because of the American public's sudden obsession with "fiscal responsibility" and "deficit reduction." This means, of course, that the economy will continue to sink, if not crash again, and it will all be Obama's fault because he happens to be the President while the country gets carried away with this Tea Party crap and hangs itself. Nevermind that nobody will actually let Obama do what he wants to do (and what needs to be done).

And, since it's all Obama's fault, that means it's the Democrats' fault too. And along with the Democrats, we're going to blame compassion, sympathy, mercy anything else they stand for because if one Democrat fails (although he hasn't), all Democrats and everything they believe in must obviously be failures, too. Fuck.

So America is going to start in on this great big crusade to rid itself of social leeches like "the poor" (read: lazy), "the sick" (that is, the immoral), and "the intellectuals" (or, rather, the snooty liberal elites). Basically, so much for the last 75 years.

If you're wondering where this century is heading in terms of our standard of living and social freedoms, imagine the 20th Century in reverse.

Downside?

[tyrannosaurus vex]

The really sad thing is that the next 10 years at least are going to be full of suck and fail for America. The economy is sinking, and progressive ideas for fixing it are off the table because of the American public's sudden obsession with "fiscal responsibility" and "deficit reduction." This means, of course, that the economy will continue to sink, if not crash again, and it will all be Obama's fault because he happens to be the President while the country gets carried away with this Tea Party crap and hangs itself. Nevermind that nobody will actually let Obama do what he wants to do (and what needs to be done).

And, since it's all Obama's fault, that means it's the Democrats' fault too. And along with the Democrats, we're going to blame compassion, sympathy, mercy anything else they stand for because if one Democrat fails (although he hasn't), all Democrats and everything they believe in must obviously be failures, too. Fuck.

So America is going to start in on this great big crusade to rid itself of social leeches like "the poor" (read: lazy), "the sick" (that is, the immoral), and "the intellectuals" (or, rather, the snooty liberal elites). Basically, so much for the last 75 years.

If you're wondering where this century is heading in terms of our standard of living and social freedoms, imagine the 20th Century in reverse.

Downside?

Well none for you, you're a Mad Scientist. The future is a bottomless cornucopia of possibilities for you.

[Fujikoma]

Nobody is really stopping Obama, unless my hostage theory is correct. Obama, and the democratic party, seem to be running amok to those of us who don't agree with them, and they better, because at this rate, they're not getting elected again for a looooong time, except in certain states. They moved a little too fast... Not that the republican party is going to come in and magically fix everything that republicans disagree with... That's why they're focusing on more extreme candidates for office. The republican party and democratic party seem to simply heap more injustice and outrage on top of an already roaring fire, all the while pointing the finger at the "other guys", without doing anything about the fire.

[Cain]

Uh, I actually believe no-one is tying Obama's hands at all.  He's never met a problem he didn't want to compromise on, and that is why the right will eat him alive, because for them, compromise is weakness and unacceptable.  At this stage I'm already looking forward to the day he has to flee the USA just to avoid the roaming bands of lunatics that will want to kill him.  It's unfair that Bush didn't get the same send off, but such is life.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Obama can't do everything himself. His "historic Grassroots movement" dissolved right after his election, and the Tea Party, although not as strong as it was 6 months ago, is still brainlessly dictating what politicians should be afraid of (in this case, common economic sense). There's a combination of problems in America, ranging from stupid voters to spineless politicians. In some ways I agree with Dok. Maybe the last century softened us up too much. The generations that endured the Depression and won WW2 should have realized that preventing those kinds of things, actually ends up causing them. I call it the Stupid Primate Paradox.

[Fujikoma]

See, while I know there is a chain of middlemen along the way from money paid into disability and welfare and the money paid out, which results in apparent loss, these middlemen are ALSO consumers, and more money paid in equals more money made by companies, and more spent on taxes, kickstarting the economy. I also understand that if the banks had gone under, we would be in deep doo-doo, but pardon me for a moment if I hold bankers to a higher standard than the average citizen...

Also, banks were provided with incentives to give loans to those who could not afford them. This current crisis is a long term result of the best of intentions. The economy took a slight downturn, and the whole problem was exacerbated by a preexisting condition, leading to a wave of foreclosures and the inevitable, but seemingly all too sudden collapse of the housing bubble. The rising cost of oil, disasters like hurricane Katrina, 9/11, the war in Iraq. No one person shares the blame for all of these things, but each one of them helped heap logs on the fire. No one wants to spend any money, but why hoard it, when you know what's coming, massive inflation. I suppose if you're smart, and make a bit of money, unlike me, you might know where to put your money so that you might actually make a profit off of this terrible turn of events.

We're going to have a new problem here soon (thanks, Ronald Reagan, for destroying all that demonic ditchweed and establishing an erroneous social concept that won't go away any fucking time in the next century) that's going to blow our fucking socks off. Anyone remember the war on drugs? Remember prohibition and why we just don't do that thing anymore? Well apparently, history fucking repeats itself. No one caught on fast enough. Now, you'll have to be thankful no one comes along and sews your head into a freaking soccer ball. And those poor people south of the border, the trouble we've caused them.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is not to say compassion is error... I believe many more of our serious problems, whether existing previously, currently, or in the future, have been/are/will be the result of legislating morality.

[Doktor Howl]

The really sad thing is that the next 10 years at least are going to be full of suck and fail for America. The economy is sinking, and progressive ideas for fixing it are off the table because of the American public's sudden obsession with "fiscal responsibility" and "deficit reduction." This means, of course, that the economy will continue to sink, if not crash again, and it will all be Obama's fault because he happens to be the President while the country gets carried away with this Tea Party crap and hangs itself. Nevermind that nobody will actually let Obama do what he wants to do (and what needs to be done).

And, since it's all Obama's fault, that means it's the Democrats' fault too. And along with the Democrats, we're going to blame compassion, sympathy, mercy anything else they stand for because if one Democrat fails (although he hasn't), all Democrats and everything they believe in must obviously be failures, too. Fuck.

So America is going to start in on this great big crusade to rid itself of social leeches like "the poor" (read: lazy), "the sick" (that is, the immoral), and "the intellectuals" (or, rather, the snooty liberal elites). Basically, so much for the last 75 years.

If you're wondering where this century is heading in terms of our standard of living and social freedoms, imagine the 20th Century in reverse.

Downside?

Well none for you, you're a Mad Scientist. The future is a bottomless cornucopia of possibilities for you.

Yeah, you professors aren't going to have a very good century.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Yeah, you professors aren't going to have a very good century.

I need to finish my Ph.D in Villainy.

[Cain]

Oh, Obama doesn't act alone, I agree.  But his choices in people to head up the State Dept, his Chief of Staff, how he handled the whole healthcare debacle etc show he is more firmly within the centrist Democrat camp than anywhere else on the political spectrum.  And thus he moves within that highly corrupt network of people, and puts their interests first while using the rhetoric of someone more to the centre left (which is why the pwogs, easily decieved by such things, are confuzzled).

Basically, when Obama has to make a decision, this is what he will do.  He will appear hands off, even dismissive of the debate, maybe saying a few noncommittal words about the thing while passing the buck to Congress.  Meanwhile, behind the scenes, the White House will actively be gutting the most progressive measures of any legislation and then allowing Congress to present a dessicated corpse of what was originally hinted at to the public.  Pwogs will then wring their hands, go "well we may not get a chance to do something like this EVER AGAIN Sarah Palin Sarah Palin Sarah Palin is coming" and then proceed to expel anyone who disagrees with the legislation from the Inner Circle of True Progressivism.  Obama will then do a massive speech high on rhetoric, low on substance, demand some sort of symbolic gesture from a few token hate figures who have arisen during the process and then sit back as the outcome he originally desired is passed, with some reluctance, with the Troo Pwog Cheerleaders backing it all the way, because politics is the art of the possible and America is a centre-right nation and concern trolling generally.

And this pattern will repeat itself until Glenn Beck swallows Obama whole in 2017, possibly part of some bizarre vore fetish, but mostly because the Nazis were against cannibalism, thus proving it is something all red-blooded Americans should do daily.