ATTN: Biology Spags

[Dimocritus]

I just was watching a show that was talking about something called Mirror Neurons. Are these as cool as I think they might be?

[Reginald Ret]

when you do stuff certain neurons fire.
if you map these they kinda look like  a person. as in the neurons that fire when your hip moves are between the neurons that move your legs and the neurons that move your belly.

There is also a map of your body that fires when you think about moving: pre-motor neurons.


here is where it gets interesting:
There is a similar map in your brain that fires when you see someone else move.
These are mirror neurons.
Scientists think that this is how we learn a lot of stuff.



They are, in fact, cooler than evolution.



PS
There is more to it than that i think but that's the gist of it.

[Dimocritus]

Get into it. What are some of the possible implications of this, aside from learning and imitation? Also, I hear some circles are trying to deny that they are present in humans (which sounds like a load of phooey to me).

[Reginald Ret]

Get into it. What are some of the possible implications of this, aside from learning and imitation? Also, I hear some circles are trying to deny that they are present in humans (which sounds like a load of phooey to me).

People are good at faking shit.
People are so good at faking shit that it has become indistinguishable from really doing shit.
AKA faking=learning

i only know of mirror neurons in humans, don't know aboot other species.
I assume all mammals have 'em.


also,
If reality is not cool enough for you i advise PILLS.

[Remington]

Monkey See, Monkey Learn, on a neurological level. Awesome.

[Jasper]

I am given to understand that mirror neurons also play a role in how we empathize with others.  When we see someone get kicked in the nads, for example, if we feel a pang of sympathy pain, it is thanks to mirror neurons. 

I have suspected for some time that they play a role in consciousness too.  What is consciousness but the visceral awareness of oneself and others?

[Kai]

Thanks for writing this post. I had never heard the term mirror neurons before.

What a perfect setup for psychosomatics.

[Dimocritus]

Thanks for writing this post. I had never heard the term mirror neurons before.

What a perfect setup for psychosomatics.

/sarcasm?

[Kai]

Thanks for writing this post. I had never heard the term mirror neurons before.

What a perfect setup for psychosomatics.

/sarcasm?

No, not sarcasm.

I'm not a neurologist, or a psychologist.

[Captain Utopia]

I wonder how tool-use fits into this.  I recall reading something about how after a short period of time the brain 'treats' tools as if they are an extension of the limb - e.g. golf clubs, stilts, screwdrivers, etc.

I also wonder if more abstract thoughts/concepts follow a mapping mechanism in a similar way.

But more questions than answers, fascinating stuff.

[Dimocritus]

I thought so. Giacomo Rizzolatti, the guy that made the discovery, is actually a really cool dude, to boot.

I mean, at its core, (beyond learning, empathy and imitation. Also, lol at self proclaimed "empaths" for thinking they're special) I can see it as a self-preservation protocol, mainly because this reaction is not necessarily species specific (a monkey can mirror a man, and a man can mirror, say, a dog) so, as long as you have these mirror neurons, you can tell if another lifeform's intentions are predatory, harmless, or even helpful.

What I'm interested in is, how this can be used in consideration to the spread of ideas (and possibly memetics) and philosophies, in order to counter-act things like harmful monkey-mind reactions. I mean, this could be a hugely important tool for Discordia, or whomever.


Some videos if you're interested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzMqPYfeA-s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmEsGQ3JmKg&feature=related

[Kai]

Also, cathexis.

These are all very useful things for a tool user.

[Golden Applesauce]

as long as you have these mirror neurons, you can tell if another lifeform's intentions are predatory, harmless, or even helpful.

What I'm interested in is, how this can be used in consideration to the spread of ideas (and possibly memetics) and philosophies, in order to counter-act things like harmful monkey-mind reactions. I mean, this could be a hugely important tool for Discordia, or whomever.

What?

I think someone's overstating what it is mirror neurons do.

When you move your foot, neurons fire in your brain.
When you think about moving your foot, neurons fire in your brain, in much the same pattern but less so.  (I think it's lower frequency, could be wrong.)
Thanks to mirror neurons, the same thing happens just from watching someone else move his foot - you don't need to consciously think about doing it yourself.

So the existence of mirror neurons just cuts the chain from:
see someone moving -> think about moving -> brain activation almost as if you were moving
to:
see someone moving -> brain activation almost as if you were moving.

Mirror neurons do not tell you what another animal's intentions are.  At best, you might see a face, and think to yourself "If I were making that face, how would I be feeling?", and there the mirror neurons would help you imagine yourself making that face... but mirror neurons are in no way, shape, or form are the super-secret mind-reading neurons that science has discovered, validating some old new-age nonsense in a different form.

[Reginald Ret]

as long as you have these mirror neurons, you can tell if another lifeform's intentions are predatory, harmless, or even helpful.

What I'm interested in is, how this can be used in consideration to the spread of ideas (and possibly memetics) and philosophies, in order to counter-act things like harmful monkey-mind reactions. I mean, this could be a hugely important tool for Discordia, or whomever.

What?

I think someone's overstating what it is mirror neurons do.

When you move your foot, neurons fire in your brain.
When you think about moving your foot, neurons fire in your brain, in much the same pattern but less so.  (I think it's lower frequency, could be wrong.)
Thanks to mirror neurons, the same thing happens just from watching someone else move his foot - you don't need to consciously think about doing it yourself.

So the existence of mirror neurons just cuts the chain from:
see someone moving -> think about moving -> brain activation almost as if you were moving
to:
see someone moving -> brain activation almost as if you were moving.

Mirror neurons do not tell you what another animal's intentions are.  At best, you might see a face, and think to yourself "If I were making that face, how would I be feeling?", and there the mirror neurons would help you imagine yourself making that face... but mirror neurons are in no way, shape, or form are the super-secret mind-reading neurons that science has discovered, validating some old new-age nonsense in a different form.

same pattern, same frequency, different neurons.

cant find a pretty picture of mirror neurons at the moment

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I am given to understand that mirror neurons also play a role in how we empathize with others.  When we see someone get kicked in the nads, for example, if we feel a pang of sympathy pain, it is thanks to mirror neurons. 

I have suspected for some time that they play a role in consciousness too.  What is consciousness but the visceral awareness of oneself and others?

Yes. Some folk postulate that people in the autism spectrum may have deficits in this area.