Homeopathy still doesn't work

[Dysnomia]

Apparently people are willing to pay for the placebo effect.  I suppose it's better than actually having arnica in it, since that's poisonous.

Details.  Details.  

According to the wikipedia entry on arnica, "Arnica contains the toxin helenalin, which can be poisonous if large amounts of the plant are eaten, and contact with the plant can also cause skin irritation.  If enough of the material is ingested, the toxin helenalin produces severe gastroenteritis, and internal bleeding of the digestive tract."

Which I think is the whole point behind homeopathy, that harmful substances like mercury or phosphorus, when diluted down to practical nonexistence, will have some effect.  It's based on bogus medieval theories to a time when poison used to be used as medicine.  But when you dilute it to the point where there aren't any molecules left, you can't even make a reasonable argument that it is any different than sugar pill.  Also from wikipedia (homeopathy), "since water will have been in contact with millions of different substances throughout its history, critics point out that water is therefore an extreme dilution of almost any conceivable substance. By drinking water one would, according to this interpretation, receive treatment for every imaginable condition"

I'd like to point out that this is especially true in LA, as they have found that the water there contains traces of almost every kind of prescription drug--especially mood enhancers.

[Shai Hulud]

I'd like to point out that this is especially true in LA, as they have found that the water there contains traces of almost every kind of prescription drug--especially mood enhancers.

Oh yeah, that is something that could actually be problematic.  We're talking more than homeopathic dilutions here, including low levels of estrogen from the urine of women taking birth control pills.  And considering that most types of bottled water just come from municipal tap water anyway, there doesn't seem to be much way to avoid it.

[Dysnomia]

that said, the homeopathic stuff seems to work better for me than going to get antibiotics or something (usually).  But that's just me.  Most of the prescription stuff I've been put on doesn't liek my system, so unless I have to, I tend to avoid. 


Unless it's Dayquil/Nyquil.  That stuff makes for fun apocalyptic dreams.   

[Shai Hulud]

that said, the homeopathic stuff seems to work better for me than going to get antibiotics or something (usually).  But that's just me.  Most of the prescription stuff I've been put on doesn't liek my system, so unless I have to, I tend to avoid. 

Everybody's system is different, and it's getting out of my depth to discuss whether or not something will actually work as a particular treatment.  But I think a lot of stuff thats billed as homeopathic isn't truly homeopathy in the sense that, although it may claim to have some diluted chemical or other, there are actually some active ingredients in there doing something.  But I think we can all agree that without even a single molecule of a substance present other than sugar it is going to be tough claiming that there is anything going on beside placebo effect.

Unless it's Dayquil/Nyquil.  That stuff makes for fun apocalyptic dreams.   

Oh yeah, Nyquil will put me right out, that stuff is great.  Thankfully haven't had much occasion to take it lately. Never had much luck with Dayquil though.

[Dysnomia]

yeah it's easy to label something as "organic" or "homeopathic".  A lot of what's out there is just bs. 


A couple of doses or either nyquil or dayquil always result in awesome dreams for me lol.   

[Iason Ouabache]

I'd like to point out that this is especially true in LA, as they have found that the water there contains traces of almost every kind of prescription drug--especially mood enhancers.

Oh yeah, that is something that could actually be problematic.  We're talking more than homeopathic dilutions here, including low levels of estrogen from the urine of women taking birth control pills.  And considering that most types of bottled water just come from municipal tap water anyway, there doesn't seem to be much way to avoid it.

Is it really most? The stuff that I produce at work is 100% well water that has gone through reverse osmosis then has salts added. I honestly have never looked around at the numbers to see how many have their own wells like us and how many buy it off of the city.

[Dysnomia]

Stop lying Iason.  We all know you accidently the WHOLE WATER SUPPLY!

[The Johnny]

Apparently people are willing to pay for the placebo effect.  I suppose it's better than actually having arnica in it, since that's poisonous.

You sir, fial at toxicity.
everything is toxic.

YES! BECAUSE EVERYTHING CONTAINS TOXINS!

sarcasm didn't save you from completely missing the point here.

a toxin is "a poisonous substance produced by living cells or organisms" and has nothing to do with what Regret tried to say, which was:

toxicity is in the dosage.

you can drink 6 liters of water and die from it, because water is toxic at that dosage.

one can drink a few shots of home distilled moonshine every day and not go blind because methanol is only toxic at the dosage of a raging alcoholic.

I see how that can be misread; i know it wasnt Regret's intention, but it reminded me a lot of some anorexics that go "vegan" and into "natural living" as an excuse for their pathology.

It also reminds me of the "second-hand smoke is a first rate killer" freaks, as if the city air isnt full of toxic particles anyhow.

[Shai Hulud]

Is it really most? The stuff that I produce at work is 100% well water that has gone through reverse osmosis then has salts added. I honestly have never looked around at the numbers to see how many have their own wells like us and how many buy it off of the city.

Yeah, I think it's most but I wouldn't swear by it.  Penn and Teller say that one third of bottled water brands don't meet NRDC standards, so it doesn't sound totally outlandish.  Not that tap water is generally bad or anything.

[Ok, actually watched that news video and it says 25%, despite the title, so there you go.  Still a lot.]

[Dysnomia]

Apparently people are willing to pay for the placebo effect.  I suppose it's better than actually having arnica in it, since that's poisonous.

You sir, fial at toxicity.
everything is toxic.

YES! BECAUSE EVERYTHING CONTAINS TOXINS!

sarcasm didn't save you from completely missing the point here.

a toxin is "a poisonous substance produced by living cells or organisms" and has nothing to do with what Regret tried to say, which was:

toxicity is in the dosage.

you can drink 6 liters of water and die from it, because water is toxic at that dosage.

one can drink a few shots of home distilled moonshine every day and not go blind because methanol is only toxic at the dosage of a raging alcoholic.

I see how that can be misread; i know it wasnt Regret's intention, but it reminded me a lot of some anorexics that go "vegan" and into "natural living" as an excuse for their pathology.

AFAIK anorexics don't go vegan to hide their pathology.  People who live the vegan lifestyle take the steps needed to find nutrition/protein/etc in ways that don't involve animals.  Just because someone is a vegan or vegetarian (like myself) does not mean that they stop eating.  Food doesn't lose nutritional value just because it doesn't have meat, or animal products in it.  I'd like to see proof that vegans are any more likely to become anorexic than non-veg(ans), because being vegetarian or vegan is not about starving yourself.  It's about avoiding foods that contain animals, or animal products (i.e. milk, honey, fur, leather, eggs, etc etc), or because people want to avoid the health issues involved with eating meat (i.e. cholesterol, dr's orders, etc)

Also, because I think you lack the intelligence to know what anorexia actually is, it is an eating disorder where the person views food as a BAD thing, and therefore refuses to-or is afraid to-eat, for fear they will become fat.  Thus whittling themselves down to dangerous levels.  It is not simply being 'malnourished' because they don't get enough protein/veggies/fruit/fiber/etc because of poor diet planning.

[The Johnny]

I see how that can be misread; i know it wasnt Regret's intention, but it reminded me a lot of some anorexics that go "vegan" and into "natural living" as an excuse for their pathology.

As opposed to saying "them anorexic vegans" or to sayiing "all anorexics are vegans".

So from the category of "anorexics" there is a small subset that calls themselves "vegans" with aposthropes because thats not what being vegan is about.

[Dysnomia]

I see how that can be misread; i know it wasnt Regret's intention, but it reminded me a lot of some anorexics that go "vegan" and into "natural living" as an excuse for their pathology.

As opposed to saying "them anorexic vegans" or to sayiing "all anorexics are vegans".

So from the category of "anorexics" there is a small subset that calls themselves "vegans" with aposthropes because thats not what being vegan is about.

Again, do you KNOW any of themz anorecik veeekanz?  If you do, you should get them to seek help.  I'd like to see some proof to your statement.

SO 



or be a good little boy, and run along and play.   

[Iason Ouabache]

Is it really most? The stuff that I produce at work is 100% well water that has gone through reverse osmosis then has salts added. I honestly have never looked around at the numbers to see how many have their own wells like us and how many buy it off of the city.

Yeah, I think it's most but I wouldn't swear by it.  Penn and Teller say that one third of bottled water brands don't meet NRDC standards, so it doesn't sound totally outlandish.  Not that tap water is generally bad or anything.

[Ok, actually watched that news video and it says 25%, despite the title, so there you go.  Still a lot.]

Thanks for the links. I'm trying not to be a bottled water apologist even though that is how I earn my paycheck at least half the time.

I will say that after going through a proper reverse osmosis treatment it (almost) doesn't matter what the source of the water. It will filter out impurities like rust, calcium carbonate, arsenic. Treatment with chlorine and ozone kills almost all of the bacteria. At that point there is no difference between bottled water and tap water other than what is added back in. Most bottled water companies add salts like NaCL and KCl. Municipal treatment plants add in fluoride plus end up with some added minerals depending on how old the plumbing systems are. They also seem to have problems removing chlorine at times but I think that is a result of them chlorinating the system every couple of months to kill any random bacterial problems. The chlorine taste goes away if you boil the water or just let it sit in a water jug for a couple of hours.

(Where was I going with this again...)

Ah yes.. Having said all of that, as the Bullshit! video showed there is no major difference bottled water and tap water. It's just water. People have hyped bottled water as having super powers and denigrated tap water as being the worst thing you could possibly drink. And neither of those are close to the truth. If treated properly they are the same fucking thing. With bottled water you are basically just buying the bottle and the label around it. Don't listen to the sloganeering. Bottle your own.



(Offer void if in Rhode Island)

[Requia ☣]

Speaking as someone who does bottle their own water: It's cheaper to buy a case (or gallon) of bottled water than it is to buy empty bottles, so the stuff is *immensely* useful in that respect.

[Salty]

What about spring water?
Does that go through a similar process? Does it begin with the same kind of contamination?

Alty,
Will drink any damn thing but V8.