You should have to have a licence to use the internet (and related idiocy)

[Cain]

So, this is, like, one of those joke articles, right?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5h8Uvk-jpSvCWT-bqYSg1Ws4I4yAA

Craig Mundie, chief research and strategy officer for Microsoft, said "there are at least 10 countries in the world whose internet capability is sophisticated enough to carry out cyber attacks ... and they can make it appear to come from anywhere."

"The Internet is the biggest command and control centre for every bad guy out there," he said.

The head of online security company McAfee told another Davos debate Friday that China, the United States, Russia, Israel and France are among 20 countries locked in a cyberspace arms race and gearing up for possible Internet hostilities.

Mundie and other experts have said there is a growing need to police the internet to clampdown on fraud, espionage and the spread of viruses.

"People don't understand the scale of criminal activity on the internet. Whether criminal, individual or nation states, the community is growing more sophisticated," the Microsoft executive said.

"We need a kind of World Health Organisation for the Internet," he said.

"When there is a pandemic, it organises the quarantine of cases. We are not allowed to organise the systematic quarantine of machines that are compromised."

He also called for a "driver's license" for internet users.

"If you want to drive a car you have to have a license to say that you are capable of driving a car, the car has to pass a test to say it is fit to drive and you have to have insurance."

Exactly how that last bit aligns with this:

Countries should guarantee to protect their citizens and their right to access to information, promise not to harbour cyber terrorists and "should commit themselves not to attack another."

remains to be seen.

Also, I should srsly learn how to hack.  Hacking is the new terrorism, from what I can see, which means there is money in it.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

When journalists say 'hack' they typically mean "use a script someone has already put on the internet without knowing how it works". You probably won't have much trouble.

[Remington]

If you encounter a firewall, type very fast so that it knows you mean business. This even works of military-grade networks.


Remington,
Learned all his haXXing skills from Hollywood (Swordfish in particular)

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

When journalists say 'hack' they typically mean "use a script someone has already put on the internet without knowing how it works". You probably won't have much trouble.

But thats what "hackers" call "script kiddies".

Yes. That's kind of the point.

If you want to be a hacker, you should probably learn at least 15 programming languages inside out (to start with), and then move onto the real work. If you want to be a skiddie (which is, of course, the main danger -- hundreds of thousands of script kiddies running various off-the-shelf attack programs at random with the same target have a far better chance of compromising something than any one skilled professional who actually knows what he's doing), then a google search will do just fine. In fact, a youtube search will do just fine as well -- there are howtos for the illiterate now.*

* Some of this is slight hyperbole. A skilled professional may be better than a thousand skiddies under some circumstances, but an unskilled professional probably isn't. The how-tos on youtube aren't for the illiterate per-se; just for the people too lazy to read a a short document and want it read to them instead. As for being a hacker, you will probably start calling yourself one before you master 15 programming languages, but it will probably be another ten years before anyone else calls you one. Unless, of course, they are a journalist.

[Requia ☣]

If what you want is to make money you really only need the one language, then write things that script kiddies will buy.

Just don't step on the toes of anybody with a bigger gang than you.

[Shibboleet The Annihilator]

You totally need a laughing skull and crossbones graphic as well, so's when you launch your uber virus, EVERYONE WILL KNOW

Especially the aliens. Also, make sure you're using a Mac Powerbook G4. Those are the leetest laptops known to man.

[Jasper]

If I was determined to become a good hacker when I was twelve, I might be generally competent by now.  :/

[Golden Applesauce]

If you want to be a hacker, you should probably learn at least 15 programming languages inside out (to start with), and then move onto the real work.

What?  Why?  The target computer isn't going to have 15 different interpreters/compilers installed on it already - in fact, if it's the typical windows installation, it won't have any besides the things like javascript and flash that are embedded in PDF viewers and web browsers.  (correct me if I'm wrong, I know must of my computer stuff from the sciences perspective rather than security.)  So the payload pretty much has to be pre-compiled x86, which means ... it doesn't really matter what language it started as, and I'm guessing at least a significant fraction of it is going to be hand coded.  Now, if the attack vector is through a program like Adobe, IE, or Firefox, you'll need some proficiency in the file formats of the objects they deal with, x86, probably javascript or flash.

I'm also unsure as to why anybody would need 15 different languages to do one kind of thing.  15 languages makes sense if you're doing lots of different kinds of stuff and using domain-specific languages - but all you're trying to do is inject some code into a remote system, just pick your favorite compiled language with good network support and a small footprint.

[Golden Applesauce]

OP - I don't see US, China, and Russia signing on to a no-cyberwar treaty like this, and I don't see anybody else signing it without the US, Russia, and China also agreeing to it.  But then I also don't know anything about IR, so that's probably wrong.  Has any military technology or strategy ever been banned without it having first been used in a war?

The second part, internet drivers licenses and quarantining computers, seems more likely.  You just have to sell people on the idea that computers weren't mentioned in whatever constitution limits your governments powers, and that they would never be quarantined, just the bad guys.  What's worse is that it might actually be a good idea, which means it could get support from smart people too.

[Requia ☣]

If you want to be a hacker, you should probably learn at least 15 programming languages inside out (to start with), and then move onto the real work.

What?  Why?  The target computer isn't going to have 15 different interpreters/compilers installed on it already - in fact, if it's the typical windows installation, it won't have any besides the things like javascript and flash that are embedded in PDF viewers and web browsers.  (correct me if I'm wrong, I know must of my computer stuff from the sciences perspective rather than security.)  So the payload pretty much has to be pre-compiled x86, which means ... it doesn't really matter what language it started as, and I'm guessing at least a significant fraction of it is going to be hand coded.  Now, if the attack vector is through a program like Adobe, IE, or Firefox, you'll need some proficiency in the file formats of the objects they deal with, x86, probably javascript or flash.

I'm also unsure as to why anybody would need 15 different languages to do one kind of thing.  15 languages makes sense if you're doing lots of different kinds of stuff and using domain-specific languages - but all you're trying to do is inject some code into a remote system, just pick your favorite compiled language with good network support and a small footprint.

ENKI is using Hacker in an older sense, because he forgets that not everybody here is a computer geek who knows what the fuck he's talking about.

ENKI, everybody else in this thread means 'cracker'.

[Golden Applesauce]

But in the older sense, you just need to know LISP, right?

[Requia ☣]

But in the older sense, you just need to know LISP, right?

That would make me a hacker, pretty sure I'm not.

[Golden Applesauce]

But in the older sense, you just need to know LISP, right?

That would make me a hacker, pretty sure I'm not.

A sufficient but not necessary condition.  But I would much rather this thread be about governmental and international policies, rather than a rehash of what a 'hacker' is.

Cain: am I correct in thinking that there is no chance that the US and China will agree to prevent cyberwarfare (and actually do it?)

[Requia ☣]

I give it roughly the same chance that they agree to stop using other forms of espionage.

I look forward to Cain's take/gutbusting laughter on that.

[Rococo Modem Basilisk]

ENKI, everybody else in this thread means 'cracker'.

I dig. I'm just getting my kicks off being a pedantic asshole for a bit .

But in the older sense, you just need to know LISP, right?

In the sixties, pretty much all that existed was LISP, FORTRAN, and various forms of assembler (unless you were lucky and scored a copy of MAD or OBERON, or were the guy who wrote FORTH). At the time, to be a hacker you kind of needed to be familiar with all of the languages in existence (or at least the ones you had access to) -- and you had to vehemently dislike all of them except for LISP if you wanted to run with McCarthy's crew.

Now, you only need to know ten. LISP should probably be one of them -- LISP can be modeled as FORTH backwards with parentheses, and so if you know FORTH you can pick up LISP quickly (FORTH itself is two stacks and a sequentially-searchable parallel array, and a drunk monkey could implement it poorly).

The target computer isn't going to have 15 different interpreters/compilers installed on it already

Obviously, the target user needs his internet license taken away.