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Several times a month, I will be in a store aisle reaching for something and feel a hand going up the inside of my thigh. When I turn around to find myself alone with a woman, and ask her if she would prefer me to hold still so she can get a better feel for the situation, oftentimes she will act "shocked" claiming nothing had happened, it must be somebody else...

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Yet another healthcare topic

Started by LMNO, February 25, 2010, 08:18:57 PM

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Jenne

Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:56:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 03:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:54:24 PM
No, but we'll still have a "legacy" force left behind like we do everyotherfuckingplace we've been to.  WHY we are still in Germany, etc.

Because the Germans are kind enough to let us use their airbase?

exactly.  Don't see Iraqi kindness blowing the same way...and neither should it, really, to be honest.

I'm just too terribly bitter for this topic, I think.

The Germans have always been good allies (post-Nazi Germany, of course).  The fact that they are still after Bush and his crowd bad-mouthed them speaks more to their character than ours.

The Right-Wing Agenda had an interesting pattern of demonization and boot-licking in general when it came ot the Yurospags.  I'm sure there's a political theory book or two out on it by now, just haven't seen any lately.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 04:03:01 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 03:58:24 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:56:59 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 03:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:54:24 PM
No, but we'll still have a "legacy" force left behind like we do everyotherfuckingplace we've been to.  WHY we are still in Germany, etc.

Because the Germans are kind enough to let us use their airbase?

exactly.  Don't see Iraqi kindness blowing the same way...and neither should it, really, to be honest.

I'm just too terribly bitter for this topic, I think.

The Germans have always been good allies (post-Nazi Germany, of course).  The fact that they are still after Bush and his crowd bad-mouthed them speaks more to their character than ours.

The Right-Wing Agenda had an interesting pattern of demonization and boot-licking in general when it came ot the Yurospags.  I'm sure there's a political theory book or two out on it by now, just haven't seen any lately.

To a certain kind of person, "ally" = "vassal".
Molon Lube

Cain

Here we are - this explains the 18 month thing in more detail http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402741.html

I'd originally heard it bandied around in 2007 or so, but I can't seem to find the articles about that.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2010, 04:06:03 PM
Here we are - this explains the 18 month thing in more detail http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402741.html

I'd originally heard it bandied around in 2007 or so, but I can't seem to find the articles about that.

Well, the GAO tends to be pretty non-partisan...which leaves me a little distressed with the "nimble" army Bush 41 and Clinton implimented.

Of course, we can't just leave without scrubbing the blood off the walls of the "enhanced interrogation" rooms.  That would be rude.
Molon Lube

Cain

Hey, I just realised...when will Rush Limbaugh start packing his bags?  It's time to move to Costa Rica!

Jenne

Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2010, 04:06:03 PM
Here we are - this explains the 18 month thing in more detail http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402741.html

I'd originally heard it bandied around in 2007 or so, but I can't seem to find the articles about that.

Well, the GAO tends to be pretty non-partisan...which leaves me a little distressed with the "nimble" army Bush 41 and Clinton implimented.

Of course, we can't just leave without scrubbing the blood off the walls of the "enhanced interrogation" rooms.  That would be rude.

...mayhap they subcontracted the work out?

Twas the Bush Way when folks didn't want to get their hands dirty--I mean be accountable--I mean would rather foot the bill and someone else do all the dirtywork...

Juana

Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2010, 04:10:10 PM
Hey, I just realised...when will Rush Limbaugh start packing his bags?  It's time to move to Costa Rica!
I was wondering about that last night. We should troll his website, asking about it.
"I dispose of obsolete meat machines.  Not because I hate them (I do) and not because they deserve it (they do), but because they are in the way and those older ones don't meet emissions codes.  They emit too much.  You don't like them and I don't like them, so spare me the hysteria."

Cain

Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 04:10:46 PM
Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 04:09:39 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2010, 04:06:03 PM
Here we are - this explains the 18 month thing in more detail http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/24/AR2009032402741.html

I'd originally heard it bandied around in 2007 or so, but I can't seem to find the articles about that.

Well, the GAO tends to be pretty non-partisan...which leaves me a little distressed with the "nimble" army Bush 41 and Clinton implimented.

Of course, we can't just leave without scrubbing the blood off the walls of the "enhanced interrogation" rooms.  That would be rude.

...mayhap they subcontracted the work out?

Twas the Bush Way when folks didn't want to get their hands dirty--I mean be accountable--I mean would rather foot the bill and someone else do all the dirtywork...

Sounds pretty plausible.  That and the troops are pretty spread out, IIRC.  "Embedded in the community" after Petraeus switched strategies.  Making sure people and guns didn't get lost along the way is probably going to take some time.

Quote from: Hover Cat on March 23, 2010, 04:13:54 PM
Quote from: Cain on March 23, 2010, 04:10:10 PM
Hey, I just realised...when will Rush Limbaugh start packing his bags?  It's time to move to Costa Rica!
I was wondering about that last night. We should troll his website, asking about it.

If someone here knows someone who lives near him, they should get a crowd to show up at his house and offer to help him pack.

I don't think you can comment on his site, but there is an unofficial fan site at http://www.rushlimbaughforum.com/

Remington

http://www.aticketforrush.com/

They've got enough money for a ticket already.
Now they're saving up for a year's worth of Spanish lessons.
Is it plugged in?

Suu

Quote from: Doktor Howl on March 23, 2010, 03:55:13 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:54:24 PM
No, but we'll still have a "legacy" force left behind like we do everyotherfuckingplace we've been to.  WHY we are still in Germany, etc.

Because the Germans are kind enough to let us use their airbase?

Technically Rammstein is a NATO base, not just a US base. And other countries have "legacy" bases in former holdings as well. France and the UK being the most guilty. I was also on base for a while that housed a bunch of guys from the French Foreign Legion right here in the states. What a lovely bunch those are.

Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."

Jenne

Quote from: Remington on March 23, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
http://www.aticketforrush.com/

They've got enough money for a ticket already.
Now they're saving up for a year's worth of Spanish lessons.

no fucking way.  :lol: 

Ok, :mittens: to those guys.

Cain

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/typepad/rzYD/~3/OuBLK7EpZeQ/rational-rage-at-a-broken-system.html

QuoteRAGE AND HEALTH CARE 
Author:  John Robb
23 March 2010  14:53
   

Here's some fun thinking about drivers of political fragmentation and the slow failure of America.

QuoteWe expect the universe to make sense, to be consistent, and when the contingencies change we get testy. Interestingly, this is not unique to humans. In one experiment, two pigeons were placed in a cage. One of them was tethered to the back of the cage while the other was free to run about as it wished. Every 30 seconds, a hopper would provide a small amount of food (a fixed interval schedule, as described earlier). The free pigeon could reach the food but the tethered one could not, and the free pigeon happily ate all the food every time. After an hour or so of this, the hopper stops providing food. The free pigeon continues to check the hopper every 30 seconds for a while, but when it's clear that the food isn't coming, it will go to the back of the cage and beat up the other pigeon. Now, the interesting thing is that the tethered pigeon has never eaten the food and the free pigeon has no reason to think the other is responsible for the food stopping. The frustration is irrational, but real nonetheless. 
- John Hopson, a game researcher at Microsoft.

The above example illustrates the driver behind the furor over the passage of health care legislation in the US.  The trigger, or the change in the game (the economic system) that prompted the confusion and anger we see today was the 2008 financial crisis.  The inchoate anger this crisis caused is now being directed against the US government and the party in power. Here's a fuller explanation for this.

We have collectively developed the belief that the capitalist system that we work in and our system of governance, although very messy at times and often harsh, is fundamentally fair.  The financial collapse proved that these beliefs were completely unfounded and we (collectively) were fools for believing in such nonsense.  Here's how this realization rolled out, step by step.

First, the meager rewards of system (the status quo game) stopped coming:


Easy, endless debt in lieu of gains in income (for increasingly productive hard work) was either made impossible to get or converted into usurious debt.
Wealth, particularly in the form of home values/pensions/expected future earnings, evaporated.
Incomes tumbled (cut backs in hours, permanent to temp status, outsourcing, or outright termination) while prices (education to health in particular) kept accelerating.

Second, in contrast to the game depicted above (where the pigeon was first given regular rewards and then suddenly and without explanation denied those rewards), it was now generally known why our rewards for participation in the system had at first dwindled and finally stopped: our capitalist system had become so corrupt that a relatively small group of people were able to perpetrate the greatest financial theft in the history of mankind. 

The final and most damning step in this process was how that even after this theft had become public knowledge (on the front page of every newspaper from here to Timbuktu), the governmental system we expected to punish malfeasance didn't work.  Not only didn't it work by failing to punish these traitors (as those who damage a nation in the worst possible way are termed) for their acts, it actually rewarded them.  It made them rich with hundreds of billions of dollars in bailouts and tens of trillions in public guarantees (to protect them against losses on their future thefts), in effect extending them a golden invitation to pillage our future again.

As the event dwindled into history, the anger didn't.  It became diffuse and festered.  Some of it eventually found a home, directed (or redirected, if you think the public is easily manipulated) against the government and the prevailing party, particularly as it pushed forward changes in the health care system.  For many the connection was that this is yet another theft, either by the health industry that wrote the bill or a government that wants to redistribute wealth via expansion of coverage. 

In the end, absent a real catharsis to purge the sense of betrayal generated by the original treasonous theft, the legitimacy of the US government will continue to sink.  Worse, all bets are off when the next financial theft occurs.  The disorder and fragmentation that will result from another event of that type will be terrible in its consequences.

East Coast Hustle

Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 23, 2010, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2010, 02:24:03 PM
However, you have to consider that the majority of people already have health insurance.  This bill doesn't affect them.  It doesn't force them to join a government-run plan, it won't drive their rates rates up (usually taken out of their paycheck before they even see it), and they won't even notice it.  It just puts more people on the Insurance Company rolls that weren't there before, and were using the Emergency Room as primary care, which does drive up costs.




This.

I for one will at least have the option to go to a real doctor as long as I don't have insurance through my workplace. Hospital costs > office costs. And they can't turn me down because I'm asthmatic.

Maybe I have a less-spitting POV on this because it's actually going to benefit me, and when I no longer need state-aided care, I don't have to worry about it anymore. Yes, I have to join a private company, but if the feds do subsidize it or I'm offered reasonable rates for reasonable care that I can afford, then the bill did it's job.

We're still a capitalist country, the insurance providers are still going to be making a buck, but now they can't be as picky about who they cover.

Exactly, Suu.  I have 2 brothers who are covered by their work policies but the out-of-pocket expenses to fund their families on same insurance plan means their wives and children GO WITHOUT.  How fucked up is that?  Now that the prices will be going down and the mandate is going through, the insurance companies will be funding those wives and children.

This also means adult children can go back on their parents' policies, so that the adult children with cancer and other huge-ass medical bills their parents are putting their houses in hock to pay for can get some assistance as well.

This bill is not perfect by a long shot, but it's better than nothing.  Period.

1. Childless adults won't be "covered" (read: forced to pay for insurance under threat of fines) until 2014.

2. Adult children will only be able to be covered on their parents' plan until they're 26, and that is provided they are still financially dependent on their parents to a degree.

IOW, this bill is mostly useless aside from the provision that forces insurance companies to stop denying pre-existing conditions.
Rabid Colostomy Hole Jammer of the Coming Apocalypse™

The Devil is in the details; God is in the nuance.


Some yahoo yelled at me, saying 'GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH', and I thought, "I'm feeling generous today.  Why not BOTH?"

Jenne

Quote from: Emerald City Hustle on March 23, 2010, 06:08:41 PM
Quote from: Jenne on March 23, 2010, 03:19:37 PM
Quote from: Suu on March 23, 2010, 02:48:23 PM
Quote from: LMNO on March 23, 2010, 02:24:03 PM
However, you have to consider that the majority of people already have health insurance.  This bill doesn't affect them.  It doesn't force them to join a government-run plan, it won't drive their rates rates up (usually taken out of their paycheck before they even see it), and they won't even notice it.  It just puts more people on the Insurance Company rolls that weren't there before, and were using the Emergency Room as primary care, which does drive up costs.




This.

I for one will at least have the option to go to a real doctor as long as I don't have insurance through my workplace. Hospital costs > office costs. And they can't turn me down because I'm asthmatic.

Maybe I have a less-spitting POV on this because it's actually going to benefit me, and when I no longer need state-aided care, I don't have to worry about it anymore. Yes, I have to join a private company, but if the feds do subsidize it or I'm offered reasonable rates for reasonable care that I can afford, then the bill did it's job.

We're still a capitalist country, the insurance providers are still going to be making a buck, but now they can't be as picky about who they cover.

Exactly, Suu.  I have 2 brothers who are covered by their work policies but the out-of-pocket expenses to fund their families on same insurance plan means their wives and children GO WITHOUT.  How fucked up is that?  Now that the prices will be going down and the mandate is going through, the insurance companies will be funding those wives and children.

This also means adult children can go back on their parents' policies, so that the adult children with cancer and other huge-ass medical bills their parents are putting their houses in hock to pay for can get some assistance as well.

This bill is not perfect by a long shot, but it's better than nothing.  Period.

1. Childless adults won't be "covered" (read: forced to pay for insurance under threat of fines) until 2014.

2. Adult children will only be able to be covered on their parents' plan until they're 26, and that is provided they are still financially dependent on their parents to a degree.

IOW, this bill is mostly useless aside from the provision that forces insurance companies to stop denying pre-existing conditions.

Dude, baby steps.  The democrats voting on this had blood thrown at them.  They're not used to the persecution since they built up their fucking fortresses of Perpetual Penetration in the 00's.

I'm grateful for the crumbs, I am.

Suu

I'd rather pay a fine than a $2000 ER bill I can't afford the next time I have to go in for an Asthma attack or UTI. Just sayin'.
Sovereign Episkopos-Princess Kaousuu; Esq., Battle Nun, Bene Gesserit.
Our Lady of Perpetual Confusion; 1st Church of Discordia

"Add a dab of lavender to milk, leave town with an orange, and pretend you're laughing at it."