Roger, it turns out you were right all along

[Earthbound Spirit]

I'm not really sure whether I would classify as one of EHC's ideal PD'ers. I mean, hell, I haven't even been here an entire year and I haven't really contributed much in the way of good writing. But for what it's worth, HFLS is right. This is elitism if I ever saw it. I hope this doesn't go through, because I really like it here, but if it does then I'm gone. Fluff isn't the only sign that a forum's gone downhill.

The forum hasn't gone downhill.  There is, over the last 2 years, more content than there ever has been here.

Trust me.

You want to see what this forum looked like in 2003/2004?  Go here:  hxxp://wicca.com/forums/index.php?board=10.0

Another mention..... 

[Doktor Howl]

I'm not really sure whether I would classify as one of EHC's ideal PD'ers. I mean, hell, I haven't even been here an entire year and I haven't really contributed much in the way of good writing. But for what it's worth, HFLS is right. This is elitism if I ever saw it. I hope this doesn't go through, because I really like it here, but if it does then I'm gone. Fluff isn't the only sign that a forum's gone downhill.

The forum hasn't gone downhill.  There is, over the last 2 years, more content than there ever has been here.

Trust me.

You want to see what this forum looked like in 2003/2004?  Go here:  hxxp://wicca.com/forums/index.php?board=10.0

Another mention..... 

What's your fucking point?  You're being used as a bad example.

Look at that subforum and tell me that's unfair.  I dare ya.

[Captain Utopia]

You're reading too much into the situation, FP.  I'm not trying to bait you.  I'm trying to get you to shut the fuck up or at least babble about something DIFFERENT, instead of making your usual gibberish fit EVERY SINGLE TOPIC.

I presented an idea, elaborated upon it twice and then gave up when it appeared that no-one was interested.  Back on page 5.

We have the technology to do the latter (big fucking hammer), it seems, but not the former.

No, you just like using a big fucking hammer.  At least the old TGRR didn't need to make up sanctimonious excuses about saving "proper good quality" posts from being buried.  Even though making shit personal is the quickest way to bury any actual discussion.  But you know, good luck re-inventing the Rocky Horror Picture Show, or whatever it is that you do now.

[Dimocritus]

You're reading too much into the situation, FP.  I'm not trying to bait you.  I'm trying to get you to shut the fuck up or at least babble about something DIFFERENT, instead of making your usual gibberish fit EVERY SINGLE TOPIC.

I presented an idea, elaborated upon it twice and then gave up when it appeared that no-one was interested.  Back on page 5.

We have the technology to do the latter (big fucking hammer), it seems, but not the former.

No, you just like using a big fucking hammer.  At least the old TGRR didn't need to make up sanctimonious excuses about saving "proper good quality" posts from being buried.  Even though making shit personal is the quickest way to bury any actual discussion.  But you know, good luck re-inventing the Rocky Horror Picture Show, or whatever it is that you do now.

Dude, if anyone's baiting here it's you. You are a master baiter. Now kindly STFU.

[Eater of Clowns]

SORRY, EOC, THE PURPOSE OF DIS HERE FRED IS TO DROWN OUT WELL-THOUGHT OUT ANSWERS WITH THREE LINE POSTS DESIGNED TO SHOW HOW SMART EACH OF US IS.  SAID POSTS SHOULD SUGGEST A MAJOR ALTERATION OF THE BOARD, OR THAT "ADDITION TECHNOLOGY" IS REQUIRED TO HAVE A SIMPLE FUCKING CONVERSATION.  YOUR POST WILL NOW BE BURIED ALONGSIDE THE OTHER ONES.

DAMMIT!

I knew I was in trouble when I clicked the "Post" button and got "13 New Messages have been posted" in the something less than 10 minutes it took me to type up.

Well we can disregard it all, I guess the point is aptly proven.

[Earthbound Spirit]

I'm not really sure whether I would classify as one of EHC's ideal PD'ers. I mean, hell, I haven't even been here an entire year and I haven't really contributed much in the way of good writing. But for what it's worth, HFLS is right. This is elitism if I ever saw it. I hope this doesn't go through, because I really like it here, but if it does then I'm gone. Fluff isn't the only sign that a forum's gone downhill.

The forum hasn't gone downhill.  There is, over the last 2 years, more content than there ever has been here.

Trust me.

You want to see what this forum looked like in 2003/2004?  Go here:  hxxp://wicca.com/forums/index.php?board=10.0

Another mention..... 

What's your fucking point?  You're being used as a bad example.

Look at that subforum and tell me that's unfair.  I dare ya.

An attempt at humor.

I know that.  I'm trying to make my own way. 

Relax.

[Nast]

It was me. It was me who killed this forum. 

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Games are games.

Once again I'd like to point out that content is what I'm interested in, and fluff is what you're interested in.

Extrapolate to be subjectively true for everyone.

Wait, what are you saying?

I am saying  that what's "fluff" and what's "content" is highly subjective.

I think that the music, comic book, and game threads are "fluff".

Someone else thinks that the love life, cooking, and beer threads are "fluff".

Yet another person thinks that the health, depression, and financial woe threads are "fluff".

But if the music, comic book, and game threads inspire someone to make music, write a comic, or design a game, and then post it here, are they fluff, or are they fodder?

If the love life, cooking, and beer threads inspire someone to write poetry and short stories, to create new recipes, or to discover a brewing technique, and they share it here, are they fluff, or are they fodder?

If the health, depression, and financial woe threads inspire essays, psycho letters, and discourse on the economy, are they fluff, or are they fodder?

One man's fluff is another man's fodder. You may hate everything I've ever written; every poem, every essay, every story. You may hate every poster I've made. I may think you have nothing interesting to talk about at all. I may skip all your posts, or not even notice that you've posted at all.

Fluff is part of the creative process. You want to see a board that's filled with ungodly, unimaginable volumes of fluff? Try art forums. Fuuuuuuuck. But there you will also find volumes of technical advice and amazing artwork/writing, and if subforums are categorized correctly then you know where to look for "actual content" and where to avoid for "fluff".

I'm not saying that every contributor is equally valuable. Someone who only ever talks about shoes and the cockroaches in their apartment is probably not much of a contributor, and maybe that kind of inanity is best self-moderated to a dull roar... not asking ourselves only if the subject is interesting/amusing, but whether the way we're presenting it is interesting/amusing. But I do wonder about the people who complain about threads and posts that they don't personally find valuable or interesting, and that is pretty much their only contribution to the forum.

I'd rather have the guy talking about shoes and cockroaches; at least that might make an interesting short story.

[the last yatto]

I don't know what other forum either.

LIMBO PEAK?

[Dimocritus]

Games are games.

Once again I'd like to point out that content is what I'm interested in, and fluff is what you're interested in.

Extrapolate to be subjectively true for everyone.

Wait, what are you saying?

I am saying  that what's "fluff" and what's "content" is highly subjective.

I think that the music, comic book, and game threads are "fluff".

Someone else thinks that the love life, cooking, and beer threads are "fluff".

Yet another person thinks that the health, depression, and financial woe threads are "fluff".

But if the music, comic book, and game threads inspire someone to make music, write a comic, or design a game, and then post it here, are they fluff, or are they fodder?

If the love life, cooking, and beer threads inspire someone to write poetry and short stories, to create new recipes, or to discover a brewing technique, and they share it here, are they fluff, or are they fodder?

If the health, depression, and financial woe threads inspire essays, psycho letters, and discourse on the economy, are they fluff, or are they fodder?

One man's fluff is another man's fodder. You may hate everything I've ever written; every poem, every essay, every story. You may hate every poster I've made. I may think you have nothing interesting to talk about at all. I may skip all your posts, or not even notice that you've posted at all.

Fluff is part of the creative process. You want to see a board that's filled with ungodly, unimaginable volumes of fluff? Try art forums. Fuuuuuuuck. But there you will also find volumes of technical advice and amazing artwork/writing, and if subforums are categorized correctly then you know where to look for "actual content" and where to avoid for "fluff".

I'm not saying that every contributor is equally valuable. Someone who only ever talks about shoes and the cockroaches in their apartment is probably not much of a contributor, and maybe that kind of inanity is best self-moderated to a dull roar... not asking ourselves only if the subject is interesting/amusing, but whether the way we're presenting it is interesting/amusing. But I do wonder about the people who complain about threads and posts that they don't personally find valuable or interesting, and that is pretty much their only contribution to the forum.

I'd rather have the guy talking about shoes and cockroaches; at least that might make an interesting short story.

Sry, misread your post the first time I read it. After I thought about it I realized what you meant. But, yeah. I agree.

[East Coast Hustle]

I might be wrong here but it just sounds like ECH is sick of reading through all the dribble to get to the good stuff and wants to do some work elsewhere with the people that do post content.
Maybe?

It seems reasonable to me. I mean, I wouldn't feel excluded if I wasn't invited to join in the reindeer games because, admittedly, I don't often post anything worth looking at.
So why not have a different place with good stuff happening and leave this place to get the juices flowing and keep up the inspiration for it?

It just sounds like putting good work in another "folder", so to speak.

Or am I wrong.

Stop it. That sort of reasonable thinking (you're exactly right, BTW) will lead you down a dark path.

And Nigel, you're conflating two separate issues. I'm not crying about a lack of content. The constant "this is what's going on in my day, today" bullshit threads would piss me off this much even if every other thread on the board at the time was the best thread ever posted. Sometimes, if you don't have anything worthwhile to share with the board, it's OK to just not hit the "post" button. Alot of people seem to have lost sight of that. I don't agree that this place needs a constant stream of verbal diarrhea to produce occasionally worthy nuggets, and in fact it seems to me that it happens less often when people are just babbling about inane shit.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

I might be wrong here but it just sounds like ECH is sick of reading through all the dribble to get to the good stuff and wants to do some work elsewhere with the people that do post content.
Maybe?

It seems reasonable to me. I mean, I wouldn't feel excluded if I wasn't invited to join in the reindeer games because, admittedly, I don't often post anything worth looking at.
So why not have a different place with good stuff happening and leave this place to get the juices flowing and keep up the inspiration for it?

It just sounds like putting good work in another "folder", so to speak.

Or am I wrong.

Stop it. That sort of reasonable thinking (you're exactly right, BTW) will lead you down a dark path.

And Nigel, you're conflating two separate issues. I'm not crying about a lack of content. The constant "this is what's going on in my day, today" bullshit threads would piss me off this much even if every other thread on the board at the time was the best thread ever posted. Sometimes, if you don't have anything worthwhile to share with the board, it's OK to just not hit the "post" button. Alot of people seem to have lost sight of that. I don't agree that this place needs a constant stream of verbal diarrhea to produce occasionally worthy nuggets, and in fact it seems to me that it happens less often when people are just babbling about inane shit.

I'm not saying that every contributor is equally valuable. Someone who only ever talks about shoes and the cockroaches in their apartment is probably not much of a contributor, and maybe that kind of inanity is best self-moderated to a dull roar... not asking ourselves only if the subject is interesting/amusing, but whether the way we're presenting it is interesting/amusing.

My suggestion is for people let the "what I did today" crap collection threads be, instead of posting snarky comments in them about how pointless they are, which invariably leads to a blowout and people taking sides. And you know, attention is attention, if you know what I mean. IMO it encourages the exact type of threads you're trying to discourage. No, Apple Talk doesn't need 500 "What I Ate Today" and "ZOMG My Butt!" threads, which is one reason leaving Open Bar and maybe even a "fuckitty fuck my life sucks" thread open, and not shitting it up with disapproval and snark about its very existence (and I'm not looking at you on this one), is not a bad idea.

I mean, this forum has had at least one "Youtube", one "What You're Listening To", one "fuckitty fuck this month sucks" and some version of Open Bar for the entire two and a half years I've been here. Seems like a working system, if we can encourage people to post in them instead of starting a new thread every time the guy in the next office farts.

Also, for everyone's information, my stupid love life is supposed to be a chronicle of my "series of beautiful, hilarious disasters", a ghetto for my posts about dating, an easy reference pool, not a sympathy thread or a battleground. Sometimes I'll go all mushy and boring, sometimes I'll go all bitter and boring, but as long as the occasional freak sticks his finger in my ear and I can end up garnering a laugh or two, I'm going to consider it worth the time I spend exposing the (usually) embarrassing details of my attempts to date.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, ECH, you can disagree all you want, and I can't speak for your creative process, but I can speak for mine, and for my own observations about other people.

[Dr. Paes]

Did someone mention crushing the internets as a whole?
This is something I can support.

[Faust]

I detest the fluff threads and think there are way too many threads for peoples personal lives at the moment but I'm not going to rail against them.
Instead whenever they annoy me I troll the shit out of them and make them unpleasant for everyone reading them.

OK, you have a point, but have you ever posted an original essay or rant or anything? I don't recall seeing any content from you at all over the last 2.5 years. Which is, of course, not anything I have a problem with, I just think it's funny that you hate fluff so much when you don't produce any content yourself.

Two threads in or Kill me in the last year, roughly 5-10 hours a week working on the site and making sure the site doesn't go down, the edition of the black iron prison for this site (that is adapted from the pdf obviously not source material), a string of forums in OM (what I came here for originally, its a shame that so many people here suck at trolling now).

But you're right I'm a critic, especially so now that I work full time, I call out what I see as stupid and I salute what I see as good.