Society is an abused child.

[JackALope2323]

As it is, I've been breaking Rule #1 of the Wise Spag. Far too much, unfortunately. As it is, though, with my suspension, everybody knows of my... Beliefs. So I figure it won't hurt. Once I move to Rhode Island, nobody there will know about what I did here, anyways, and I can start afresh as a "Normal".

I've been trying to explain to my friends the philosophy behind Discordianism, exactly all of the beliefs espoused in the Black Iron Prison. To, for some reason, my surprise, none of them are willing to listen to me. I know this shouldn't surprise me, but fuck. It hurts when The Machine (TM) has worked so well that people won't even listen to alternative views, let alone consider them.

There's one analogy that either I came up with or was implanted in my head and I think is mine, that I really love. But, as it is, I've been unable to get it out to anybody, so it's been stewing here in my head, demanding it be expressed. So I toss it at you guys, who I know will be able to understand and appreciate it.

Society is like the abused child. When the parent comes home, drunk and angry, slaps the child, and tells them how much of a failure, or a slut, or a loser, or a thug they are, night after night, over and over again, this message being drilled into their heads, what happens? The child BELIEVES these things their sole authority figure in life (At the moment) is telling them. And so, therefore, they become a failure, or a slut, or a loser, or a thug, because they BELIEVE this is what they are, and that it is all they ever will be able to be, because their authority figure told them so.

The same applies to individuals in society. For example; Blacks in America are constantly shown this image of other blacks being only one thing: Thugs and street gangsters, people who drop out of high school and resort to a life of crime. They are shown this by the media, by the government. And what happens? Most blacks in America BECOME like what they are shown; They become like what they are told they are; They become like what they are told they can only be. They do not believe that they can be any more than that thug or gangster.

However, my larger point applies to not just an individual group of people; It applies to the entire population of America, and the entire population controlled by The Machine (TM). We are given this view that we, as people, are naturally violent. That, without control by some sort of Government, we would destroy ourselves. We are given the view that we are animals, needing farmers to corral use and leash us and lead us along. And therefore, we BECOME these animals that are violent and need to be controlled. We BECOME these creatures that, if not governed, would destroy one another. We do not think about ourselves; We do not think "Am I a creature that is violent?" We blindly accept the "facts" that are given to us by our authority figures, just like the abused child.

This should not be, but, as it is, it is.

I'd continue, but I'm in school right now, and the class is almost up, so I need to put this laptop away. I hope this was understandable, and not just a ramble session.

-Jack

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Um

Not to knock your premise, but you've got to lose some of your hyperbole because it's very very wrong. Most black people don't become thugs or gang members; most grow up to a working or middle-class life. 83% of black adults in the US have a high school diploma or equivalent. More black adults have been to college than haven't, though the percentage with a bachelor degree or higher is still only about 25%.

Not sure where you got the idea that "most" American blacks become thugs, gang  members, prostitutes, etc. but I am guessing it's because you live somewhere there are very few black people, so you are taking what the media shows to and extrapolating it to be reality.

[Doktor Howl]

The same applies to individuals in society. For example; Blacks in America are constantly shown this image of other blacks being only one thing: Thugs and street gangsters, people who drop out of high school and resort to a life of crime. They are shown this by the media, by the government. And what happens? Most blacks in America BECOME like what they are shown; They become like what they are told they are; They become like what they are told they can only be. They do not believe that they can be any more than that thug or gangster.

You've fallen into the same trap you describe.  You have accepted society's image of a subgroup without questioning it.

Blacks represent between 13-16% of America, depending on how you define "Black".  "Most", meaning "more than half" would imply that there are 24,800,001 Black gangsters/thugs in America.  If you have credible data suggesting that there are that many, I suggest you post it...Because I doubt that there are that many gangsters/thugs PERIOD, all races combined.

Pull the beam out of your own eye, as the man said.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

From http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs32/32146/index.htm#National

Approximately 1 million gang members belonging to more than 20,000 gangs were criminally active within all 50 states and the District of Columbia as of September 2008

From http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/Survey-Analysis/Demographics




That's about what, 350,000 black gang members? Out of 37.6 million (as of the 2008 census) American blacks total. That's less than one percent, isn't it?

Way to perpetuate erroneous racial stereotypes!

[NotPublished]

I always hate segregating it into whites / blacks / blue... I have Black friends, but I hate calling them Black friends, they're my friends.

Hey ... I was instilled that I'm a loser and nothing, but in the end I realised my step-dad was just a jerk, I got over it and made peace I know myself.

Being instilled something from a young age - It either pulls you towards it or pushs you away from it. I grew up in a verrrryy angry environment, and people wonder why I take things with humour ... cause I'm soo very over anger. But I have my days where my tolerance is low, I usually just try avoid as many people as possible till I get over it.

Oh personally - I wouldn't bother sprouting Discordianism; its best done through humour

[The Wizard]

Oh personally - I wouldn't bother sprouting Discordianism; its best done through humour

THIS. And also, while I agree that people let themselves be programed, it's not to be a gangster or hooker or anything like that. Rather, people are more likely to be programmed as mindless drones. The Machine likes people to be cogs. While Gangsters and similar are not threats to the system (if anything they reinforce to everyone else that the Machine is necessary), they are not cogs themselves. And people have that all important choice as well. Most choose to become cogs, either consciously or because they are too lazy to be anything else. So it's the people's fault as much as it is the Machine. The people allow the Machine to function through conformity or apathy.

Oh, and as the others have already stated, you sort of fell into the trap you described.

[JackALope2323]

I apologize for my reference to blacks like that. I was in the heat of the moment, and wasn't thinking straight. Looking back on it, it's probably not the best hyperbole to use, as Nigel said.

@NotPublished: Most people who are pushed away by being instilled that they are something are practically Discordians already; In name or otherwise.

@Joh'Nyx: I didn't use any with direct references to Eris or Discordia... Although I do have Pope cards I plant to put-pocket random people who seem like they might actually read the Principia through and consider it.

I don't preach to my friends. They came and asked me what I was trying to do with the posters, and I explained. They automatically rejected my explanations without any consideration. I really didn't even directly name "Eris" or "Discordia". I just espoused the ideas that come along with them.

Also, if I only became friends with fellow Discordians who aren't puppets of The Machine, I'd be a very, very lonely person. Minus the internet. But I'm done with only having friends on the internet, thank you very much.

Mind telling me where my metaphor seems inaccurate?

And yes, I do believe that deep down, behind the mask The Machine (TM) has forced most of us to wear, humans are decent people who won't go around killing everybody they don't like if there were no police to stop them from doing so. The only reason we believe people and ourselves to be like that is because The Machine (TM) tells us they are so, so that we believe that we need The Machine (TM) to protect us, when, in fact, The Machine (TM) is pointless.

(Sidenote: I am probably [Inaccurately] interchangeably using "The Machine (TM)" and "Authority" as the same things.)

I was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.

@Semaj: I never said it wasn't people's fault for not believing what The Machine (TM) tells them and pushing away, as NotPublished did to his step-father. I'm just pointing out that most people, unfortunately, are like the step-child that NotPublished was not, the step-child who believes what his step-father tells him and becomes a loser or a slut or a thug or a whatever. In the same way, most people in society become what THEIR authority figure, be it the Media or the Government or whatever, tells them they will be, or what they can only be.

They are, is it is, weak. But, just as a weak person who was abused can be brought up out of their idea that they can only be a loser or a slut or a thug or a whatever by a psychologist or something similar, so can the people in society be brought up out of their idea that they are or can only be what The Machine (TM) tells them they are or can be. Society is mentally ill, gentlemen. And we are their psychologist.

[Golden Applesauce]

I've been trying to explain to my friends the philosophy behind Discordianism, exactly all of the beliefs espoused in the Black Iron Prison. To, for some reason, my surprise, none of them are willing to listen to me. I know this shouldn't surprise me, but fuck. It hurts when The Machine (TM) has worked so well that people won't even listen to alternative views, let alone consider them.

What is the philosophy behind Discordianism, and what are "exactly all the beliefs espoused" in the Black Iron Prison?

I suspect you don't really know as much as you think you know, and that your friends are picking up on that.  Perhaps some introspection might be more useful than blaming mass brainwashing on all of your problems?

[JackALope2323]

Basically, the idea that everyone should think for themselves, rather than simply blindly believing what anybody, even members of Authority tell them. And, considering the subjective nature of each individual's reality, one should always be willing to question ANYTHING, especially their own beliefs and views about the world.

I didn't go into the whole "Everything is Chaos; We simply apply illusions of Order and Disorder." jazz. If some had inquired further, I would've, but, as it is, not a single individual cared to delve past what was previously stated.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Jackalope, your responses leave me thinking that you are not willing to truly dissect the criticisms and use them to further your own learning, as you have only used them as an enemy against which to lodge a defense, rather than think.

[East Coast Hustle]

short version:

Anarchists are self-deluded idiots who are in denial both about the nature of primates and about their own capabilities.

[Triple Zero]

@Joh'Nyx: I didn't use any with direct references to Eris or Discordia... Although I do have Pope cards I plant to put-pocket random people who seem like they might actually read the Principia through and consider it.

this is still a cool idea.

And yes, I do believe that deep down, behind the mask The Machine (TM) has forced most of us to wear, humans are decent people who won't go around killing everybody they don't like if there were no police to stop them from doing so.

Oh dear.

I believe, deep down, social pressure is real good at making people think that deep down humans are decent people.

I also believe that, deep down, we are all savage screaming monkeys.

And that human decency does not come naturally to us, from some deep down primal instinct, but is the result of conscious, deliberate and intelligent effort. Hence "Think for yourself, SCHMUCK!".

(Sidenote: I am probably [Inaccurately] interchangeably using "The Machine (TM)" and "Authority" as the same things.)

We usually say The Machine to that emergent conglomerate mega organism of human and corporate etc power structures. While Authority usually just means what it says on the box.

I was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.

It's easy to think that.


The fact is, we ate them.

[The Wizard]

I was under the impression that most Discordians were, in fact, Anarchists. Maybe I'm crazy.

I'm kind of an anarchist, but for me it's a kind of Utopian ideal. I would love for anarchism to work, but the species as a whole needs to grow up a lot first.

I don't preach to my friends. They came and asked me what I was trying to do with the posters, and I explained. They automatically rejected my explanations without any consideration. I really didn't even directly name "Eris" or "Discordia". I just espoused the ideas that come along with them.

Friends who don't listen to you aren't really friends. Even relatively superficial friendship should involve real communication of some type.

They are, is it is, weak. But, just as a weak person who was abused can be brought up out of their idea that they can only be a loser or a slut or a thug or a whatever by a psychologist or something similar, so can the people in society be brought up out of their idea that they are or can only be what The Machine (TM) tells them they are or can be. Society is mentally ill, gentlemen. And we are their psychologist.

As Johnny said, people must think they have a problem before it can be fixed. If you're looking to save humanity mate, don't bother. It doesn't work. Try to get the people who are actually willing to think out of the programming and the rest of the time, just have fun and laugh at the world.

And yes, I do believe that deep down, behind the mask The Machine (TM) has forced most of us to wear, humans are decent people who won't go around killing everybody they don't like if there were no police to stop them from doing so.

Commendable, but somewhat inaccurate. Outside of the rare few people born with innate moral sense, most people need to be programmed with a conscious. Think about all of the petty cruelty that children are capable of because they haven't finished their education.

[Dimocritus]

Yeeeeeaaaahh... Ummmm....

Can your preachy ass NOT come to RI? Srsly. Don't.

[JackALope2323]

Such a warm welcome I'm getting from everybody! =D

@ Dimo: I don't mean to preach. I understand, from my friends and apparently from you guys, that I tend to unknowingly enter "preach mode" a lot. I apologize if I came across as preachy.

@ Semaj: Then, apparently, I only have one real friend.

My idea was to get more people to be willing to think out of the programming... It can't be that hard, right? I mean, apparently, that little PosterGASM adventure I went on got at least ONE person to think differently than they had been. So I must be getting somewhere.

And besides, saving humanity is my idea of fun, anyways. ;D

And I'll think on that last statement.

@ Triple Zero: I never said human instinct is what makes us decent. I believe that, when given the chance to think for ourselves, rather than being told what to thought, humans are decent who would not believe that violence is the solution to all or most answers, and would go about their lives relatively peaceably, not ripping into one another.

@ Emerald City: I am indeed very self-deluded. That it something I will never, ever deny. Probably an idiot, too. Just ask everybody who knows me.

@ Nigel: If you believe so. I was simply engaging in, what I believed to be, friendly debate, in an attempt to refine my own ideas. I'm stubborn as shit (Which is, unfortunately, my biggest flaw, which, as much as I work on it, can't seem to go away when I tell it to.), and it takes a lot to dislodge me from an idea entirely, but I'd like to believe I'm more than willing to at least refine an idea.

@ Joh'Nyx: It's more than obvious that not every human is decent under all of what we are forced to be by The Machine (TM). There are Ted Bundys and Charles Mansons' out there, without a doubt. But I have no doubt that, in a government-free society, mob justice would quickly result in most of these detriments quickly being resolved.

And would you say that Society doesn't have a problem, Joh'Nyx? I understand Society probably doesn't believe it, but that's why I'm trying to be active like I am.