This is the sort of idiocy we have to put up with - IRC edition

[Cain]

(10:33:14)- Steppah joined
(10:33:43)<Steppah>u guys stayin up for 4:20?
(10:33:49)<Payne>fuck off
(10:33:59)<Steppah>
(10:34:03)<Steppah>so hostile
(10:34:09)<Steppah>on such a holy day
(10:34:11)<Cain>sorry Payne, #discord has been taken over by retards of late
(10:34:12)<Payne>to quote Cain:
(10:34:14)<Payne>Anyone who feels the need to "identity" themselves with the slack-jawed losers of the "cannabis subculture" should probably just remove themselves from the genepool now and leave those of use who occasionally like to indulge in recreational drugs without glorifying it as a lifestyle choice in peace.
(10:34:35)- Payne set mode: +v Steppah
(10:34:45)<Steppah>piss off im a medical user
(10:34:48)<Payne>yes, it seems that way Cain
(10:34:53)<Steppah>ur just an arrogant fuck
(10:35:11)<Payne>ur just a slack jawed dribbling sheep
(10:35:24)<Steppah>discordianism is heavily influenced by psychedelics
(10:35:27)<Steppah>weed included
(10:35:33)<Payne>no, SOME of it is
(10:35:36)<Payne>mine is not
(10:35:56)* zerogravitytits suffocates Payne with a weed pillow
(10:36:22)<Payne>my Discordianism recognises that getting fucked out of your mind on any form of drug isn't changing your mind in any way.
(10:36:39)<Payne>and it's in no way so spiritual as to need its own "holy day"
(10:36:49)<zerogravitytits>lol
(10:36:56)<Steppah>jjust be aware that this movement with which u identify was influenced directly by this plant that infuriates u
(10:36:57)<zerogravitytits>stop trollin homo
(10:37:03)<Steppah>and as a discordian
(10:37:04)<Steppah>\
(10:37:12)<Steppah>i have the right to form my own schism
(10:37:16)<Steppah>within my sect
(10:37:16)<Payne>I don't identify with Leary, RAW or any of those tedious fuckers
(10:37:23)<Steppah>4:20 is a holy day
(10:37:27)<zerogravitytits>Payne ia trollin
(10:37:32)<Steppah>but those guys r the shit
(10:37:39)<Payne>yes, they were shit
(10:37:44)<Payne>and now they're dead
(10:37:47)<Payne>and this is a new day
(10:37:48)<Steppah>u r such a queer
(10:37:51)<Steppah>how did u end up
(10:37:56)<Cain>Payne you don't have the right to form your own schism
(10:37:59)<zerogravitytits>like ur mom Payne
(10:38:00)<Steppah>a discordian\
(10:38:06)<Cain>only Steppah and people who agree with him do
(10:38:16)<Steppah>have u even read the principia discordia?
(10:38:18)<Payne>is okay Cain, I'm used to not being a Really Real Discordian now
(10:38:18)<Steppah>popes
(10:38:20)<Cain>no disagreeing in my chaos religion
(10:38:23)<Steppah>r encouraged to form schisms
(10:38:27)<Steppah>u dont know shit
(10:38:28)<Steppah>gtfo
(10:38:38)<Payne>wait wait wait
(10:38:49)<Payne>you are arguing Orthodox Discordianism too?
(10:38:53)<Payne>why is that so big lately?
(10:39:12)<Steppah>cuz ppl r waking up
(10:39:13)<Cain>beats thinking, I guess
(10:39:36)<zerogravitytits>if you're not a really real discordian you're probably just a real discordian or not a real discordian at all, or a discordian
(10:39:51)<Steppah>yo zerogravitytits
(10:39:53)<Steppah>my man
(10:39:54)<Steppah>whats good
(10:40:00)<zerogravitytits>beer
(10:40:00)<Payne>no ZGT, it's obvious that we're doing it wrong
(10:40:21)<Payne>I should go and become a Jehovahs Witness or something
(10:40:44)<Payne>Cain, wanna come be a JT with me now we're no longer welcome to Discord all over the place?
(10:40:59)<Payne>JW*
(10:41:04)<Cain>fuck yeah, knocking on doors is the shit
(10:41:18)<Payne>shit yeah
(10:41:20)<zerogravitytits>itt people butthurt over differences in discordianism
(10:41:32)<Payne>I'm not butthurt
(10:41:37)<Frowardd>I'm a replica discordian
(10:41:40)<Payne>I'm just getting some rage on
(10:41:48)<Frowardd>in my area discordians are banned by law
(10:41:50)<Cain>I'm lulzing it up
(10:41:57)<Payne>although it may have more to do with not having enough coffee
(10:42:04)* Payne gets another coffee
(10:42:12)* zerogravitytits gets another beer
(10:42:17)- Steppah quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)

And

(11:03:44)<zerogravitytits>a question for cain or me, Payne?
(11:03:59)<Payne>what do you know of 4G warfare ZGT?
(11:04:10)<zerogravitytits>not much but i'm in the infantry
(11:04:19)<Payne>OH!
(11:04:23)<Payne>I remember now
(11:04:40)<Cain>you know, since they teach infantry soldiers about strategy so much
(11:05:34)<Payne>First Earth Battalion: influenced by or influence OF this line of strategic thinking? And is such a distinction really important anyway?
(11:05:50)<zerogravitytits>strategy is like 50% of what they teach infantry... but like i said i still don't know much about it :P
(11:06:16)<Cain>no, they teach tactics, at best.  and even then they do a hamfisted job of that
(11:06:34)<zerogravitytits>who does?
(11:07:03)<Payne>(btw, I love revisiting old ideas in the context of a year or two of extra learning)
(11:07:16)<Cain>as far as I can see, the FEB seems a lot closer to 5GW.  it seems to concentrated on the very low kinetic end of the spectrum, and focuses a lot more on perception than 4GW is
(11:07:39)<Cain>pretty much every military school in the western world.  that's why Iraqi orphans with no shoes keep kicking their asses
(11:08:02)<Payne>I suppose that's true
(11:08:25)<Payne>I'm still forgetting the thing that made me place it in 4GW
(11:08:33)<zerogravitytits>iraq was defeated

[Cainad (dec.)]

(11:03:44)<zerogravitytits>a question for cain or me, Payne?
(11:03:59)<Payne>what do you know of 4G warfare ZGT?
(11:04:10)<zerogravitytits>not much but i'm in the infantry
(11:04:19)<Payne>OH!
(11:04:23)<Payne>I remember now
(11:04:40)<Cain>you know, since they teach infantry soldiers about strategy so much
(11:05:34)<Payne>First Earth Battalion: influenced by or influence OF this line of strategic thinking? And is such a distinction really important anyway?
(11:05:50)<zerogravitytits>strategy is like 50% of what they teach infantry... but like i said i still don't know much about it :P
(11:06:16)<Cain>no, they teach tactics, at best.  and even then they do a hamfisted job of that
(11:06:34)<zerogravitytits>who does?
(11:07:03)<Payne>(btw, I love revisiting old ideas in the context of a year or two of extra learning)
(11:07:16)<Cain>as far as I can see, the FEB seems a lot closer to 5GW.  it seems to concentrated on the very low kinetic end of the spectrum, and focuses a lot more on perception than 4GW is
(11:07:39)<Cain>pretty much every military school in the western world.  that's why Iraqi orphans with no shoes keep kicking their asses
(11:08:02)<Payne>I suppose that's true
(11:08:25)<Payne>I'm still forgetting the thing that made me place it in 4GW
(11:08:33)<zerogravitytits>iraq was defeated

Well hot fucking hell, when did this happen?

[Cain]

Apparently after the Iraqi government fell.

The log goes on for quite a bit after that, with some exceptional statements of idiocy, but I thought it best to spare you all the gory details.  Some highlights

(11:18:41)<zerogravitytits>all that matters is having the better technology

(11:21:23)<zerogravitytits>you want to know what the strategy is? draw out and kill as many 'taliban' as possible

(11:23:07)<Payne>then how is the stated objective achieved?
(11:23:23)<zerogravitytits>it's already been achieved
(11:23:34)<Payne>then why are you still therE?
(11:23:41)<zerogravitytits>hell if i know
(11:23:45)<Payne>there is another objective
(11:24:12)<Payne>create a stable "democratic" state, and build a broadly "Capitalist" economy
(11:24:32)<zerogravitytits>that will happen invevitably

(11:30:00)<zerogravitytits>maybe they're overstretched because they know they have unlimited troops to throw into the fray

[Pope Pixie Pickle]

Man they were lucky I didn't tear them a new one and have no net access.

[Reginald Ret]

This proves it, soldier training makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

[Faust]

I'm glad to see orthodox Discordianism is catching on.

[Doktor Howl]

This proves it, soldier training makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

Fuck you.

[Eater of Clowns]

This proves it, soldier training makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

This proves it, being Dutch makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

This proves it, being a male makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

This proves it, having a music affiliated moniker makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

All equally as valid as your statement.

[East Coast Hustle]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

[Suu]

This proves it, soldier training makes you stupider and less likely to think for yourself.

Um.....Die in a fire.

[Jasper]

It may be generalized to the majority, but most of the soldiers I've met are intelligent and thoughtful enough.

But any rigidly controlled hierarchy that has such strong anti-individuality memes being explicitly enforced is going to attack a person's tendency to TFY,S!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

I would hazard to say that is true, within context. During military exercises, for instance; it situations where the ability to simply listen & obey without hesitation may be crucial to not only your own survival, but the survival of the whole unit.

However, the ability to listen & obey without thinking is a learned skill. If you've ever worked with one of those stupid fucks who questions every fucking thing they're asked to do, or is constantly coming up with "better" ways to do things before they even understand the process they're being asked to follow, you know exactly what I mean.

[Jasper]

It's not a simple thing.  On the one hand, you need to follow orders, and on the other hand I've heard stories about marines getting excoriated for being "individuals", as individualistic as our society is.

[Thurnez Isa]

I have a friend in the military who thinks the same way, and it's not like he doesn't think for himself.
What it shows me is there ought to be more emphasis and training placed on guerrilla warfare, tribal warfare, or "bush" style warfare. Not to say that old style tactical warfare wont happen again, but in 99% of "modern" conflicts the nature and therefore that tactical emphasis has radically changed.

[Doktor Howl]

saying it makes you stupider is, well, stupid.

however, in the context of infantry training, there's probably a kernel of truth to the "less likely to think for yourself" part.

Incorrect.  In the infantry, it is assumed that a private may wind up in command.  Individual initiative is prized and developed, unlike in the old Soviet style "ride the plan down in flames" approach.