UNLIMITED Arizona Hilarity thread

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/08/portlands_role_as_hub_of_child.html

[Junkenstein]

You can't just... DIVEST yourself of children. Children are forever.

Unless they're an accessory or something.

The one family dumped the kid because he had big feet and funny ears.  FFS.

It makes me wonder how the hell they qualified to adopt in the first place. Who is running this circus?

I for one WELCOME my new AI overlords. They have to do a better job of this than we are.

You know, my ex and I were turned down for state adoption? Although we had just bought a house, we were too young and didn't make enough money.

What the crap?  Knowing you, I don't expect you filed for "Healthy White Baby, list of requirements forthcoming".  You'd think the state would be happy to find stable homes for their wards.

That would depend entirely on the economics of the state. I would strongly suspect some places to have incentives to not let children be adopted as it would cause a drop in revenue. Would it surprise you to see "Sheriff Joe's Orphanage"? These kind of places have been traditionally good money makers. It's just like old folks homes. It's a very vulnerable group with few rights, fewer advocates and no real concern to anyone beyond the affected.

There was a mention of foreign children in there too, so add a language barrier and past a certain age the child is almost totally fucked and in care until thrown on the streets.

UGH that makes being turned down make more sense. If we'd had more money we would simply have hired a lawyer, but being young and working-class that wasn't an option.

It's just another charming part of the prison pipeline. At some point the Orphanage(Blanket term) can't make cash from you anymore so get on the street and find a job and a house. Result? You're off on the path to petty offences and a shit future without some serious luck.

[Cain]

-

[Junkenstein]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

Most of them have been "kicked out" (throwaways) or run away from their homes of origin. A very high proportion of kids in long-term foster care also run away but they don't make up the majority of street youth. Most runaways come from homes where there was abuse.

Best friend works with homeless youth, I spent last year working with kids in foster care, I could dig up statistics pretty easily if you want them.

[Junkenstein]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

Most of them have been "kicked out" (throwaways) or run away from their homes of origin. A very high proportion of kids in long-term foster care also run away but they don't make up the majority of street youth. Most runaways come from homes where there was abuse.

Best friend works with homeless youth, I spent last year working with kids in foster care, I could dig up statistics pretty easily if you want them.

If you could, I'd appreciate it. No rush, it's more to see how accurate my gut feeling was on this. I also suspect things are going to get much worse for this group and the overall numbers rising due to austerity knock on effects. I won't try and predict results beyond "not good". The more I think about this kind of stuff, the worse the implications get.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

Most of them have been "kicked out" (throwaways) or run away from their homes of origin. A very high proportion of kids in long-term foster care also run away but they don't make up the majority of street youth. Most runaways come from homes where there was abuse.

Best friend works with homeless youth, I spent last year working with kids in foster care, I could dig up statistics pretty easily if you want them.

If you could, I'd appreciate it. No rush, it's more to see how accurate my gut feeling was on this. I also suspect things are going to get much worse for this group and the overall numbers rising due to austerity knock on effects. I won't try and predict results beyond "not good". The more I think about this kind of stuff, the worse the implications get.

Numbers are vague in places because, well, homeless. But the breakdown from the current numbers is that about  one-third of a percent of the homeless youth in a given year come from foster care; roughly 6000 of the 1.7 million total. It has been higher in the past; last time I looked at the numbers it was two-thirds of a percent. Still quite a small part of the total.

http://www.nchcw.org/uploads/7/5/3/3/7533556/crs_2013_rhya_history_and_lit_review.pdf

This has a lot more accessibly presented figures but the percentage of runaways from foster homes isn't among them: http://www.nn4youth.org/system/files/FactSheet_Unacompanied_Youth_0.pdf

[Aucoq]

I think you just destroyed my soul with those quotes, Cain.  Those poor fucking children.  God damn. . .

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

Most of them have been "kicked out" (throwaways) or run away from their homes of origin. A very high proportion of kids in long-term foster care also run away but they don't make up the majority of street youth. Most runaways come from homes where there was abuse.

Best friend works with homeless youth, I spent last year working with kids in foster care, I could dig up statistics pretty easily if you want them.

If you could, I'd appreciate it. No rush, it's more to see how accurate my gut feeling was on this. I also suspect things are going to get much worse for this group and the overall numbers rising due to austerity knock on effects. I won't try and predict results beyond "not good". The more I think about this kind of stuff, the worse the implications get.

Numbers are vague in places because, well, homeless. But the breakdown from the current numbers is that about  one-third of a percent of the homeless youth in a given year come from foster care; roughly 6000 of the 1.7 million total. It has been higher in the past; last time I looked at the numbers it was two-thirds of a percent. Still quite a small part of the total.

http://www.nchcw.org/uploads/7/5/3/3/7533556/crs_2013_rhya_history_and_lit_review.pdf

This has a lot more accessibly presented figures but the percentage of runaways from foster homes isn't among them: http://www.nn4youth.org/system/files/FactSheet_Unacompanied_Youth_0.pdf

YOU'RE WELCOME. I mean, it's not like I had anything else to do besides look for the numbers and sources for you, no need to thank me.

[Junkenstein]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

Most of them have been "kicked out" (throwaways) or run away from their homes of origin. A very high proportion of kids in long-term foster care also run away but they don't make up the majority of street youth. Most runaways come from homes where there was abuse.

Best friend works with homeless youth, I spent last year working with kids in foster care, I could dig up statistics pretty easily if you want them.

If you could, I'd appreciate it. No rush, it's more to see how accurate my gut feeling was on this. I also suspect things are going to get much worse for this group and the overall numbers rising due to austerity knock on effects. I won't try and predict results beyond "not good". The more I think about this kind of stuff, the worse the implications get.

Numbers are vague in places because, well, homeless. But the breakdown from the current numbers is that about  one-third of a percent of the homeless youth in a given year come from foster care; roughly 6000 of the 1.7 million total. It has been higher in the past; last time I looked at the numbers it was two-thirds of a percent. Still quite a small part of the total.

http://www.nchcw.org/uploads/7/5/3/3/7533556/crs_2013_rhya_history_and_lit_review.pdf

This has a lot more accessibly presented figures but the percentage of runaways from foster homes isn't among them: http://www.nn4youth.org/system/files/FactSheet_Unacompanied_Youth_0.pdf

YOU'RE WELCOME. I mean, it's not like I had anything else to do besides look for the numbers and sources for you, no need to thank me.

Sorry, busy day. Started going over the more accessible one a while ago, it is appreciated.

[Junkenstein]

Also, interesting stats:

• More than one third of homeless youth engage in survival sex. (Ray, 2006)
• 162,000 homeless youth are estimated to be victims of commercial sexual exploitation in the United
States. (Estes & Weiner, 2001)

With this kind of stuff the real number is usually much higher. So that's some alarming numbers there.

The prevalence of sexual abuse ranges from 21% to 70% in some studies. Abuse and trauma are
further compounded by survival sex and other victimization. (YouthCare, Inc., 1998)
• According to YouthCare studies of a homeless youth sample, 33% had been in foster care, 51% had
been physically abused, and 60% of girls and 23% of boys had been sexually abused. (YouthCare,
Inc., 1998)
• In November 2002, the Department of Health and Human Services reported that between 21% and
40% of runaway youth had been sexually abused, compared to between 1% and 3% of the general
youth population. (American Civil Liberties Union, 2003)

Assuming no significant shifts, that's another angle on the checks. There's a vast established likehood of abuse, there's a significant chance the child has already suffered abuse so how much do you trust joe applicant? Enough to potentially risk your job if shit goes wrong?

That said, modern world and that, I would also assume there to be mandatory re-homing targets. Got to have some fresh faces, change the beds. I'd guess the troublesome kids would be those preferentially placed in those kind of situations.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Ron Wyden seems to be one of the good guys in the Senate, so it is reassuring to see he is, at the very least, aware of these issues.

Also noted this:

Slightly more than 49 percent of victims have an affiliation with gangs, which have discovered that exploiting children for commercial sex acts is more lucrative than running drugs or guns, Marshall said.

Obviously some of that cost is due to the inherently illegal and morally reprehensible nature of the act.  But beyond that, it also suggests demand and a market.

The question becomes then, trying to determine the size and demand in that market. I'm betting the answer to both is "scarily larger than you thought".


Also, Nigel, not sure if you could easily find stats, but I'd bet serious cash that the majority of homeless teens are orphans and/or have bad experiences in care.

Most of them have been "kicked out" (throwaways) or run away from their homes of origin. A very high proportion of kids in long-term foster care also run away but they don't make up the majority of street youth. Most runaways come from homes where there was abuse.

Best friend works with homeless youth, I spent last year working with kids in foster care, I could dig up statistics pretty easily if you want them.

If you could, I'd appreciate it. No rush, it's more to see how accurate my gut feeling was on this. I also suspect things are going to get much worse for this group and the overall numbers rising due to austerity knock on effects. I won't try and predict results beyond "not good". The more I think about this kind of stuff, the worse the implications get.

Numbers are vague in places because, well, homeless. But the breakdown from the current numbers is that about  one-third of a percent of the homeless youth in a given year come from foster care; roughly 6000 of the 1.7 million total. It has been higher in the past; last time I looked at the numbers it was two-thirds of a percent. Still quite a small part of the total.

http://www.nchcw.org/uploads/7/5/3/3/7533556/crs_2013_rhya_history_and_lit_review.pdf

This has a lot more accessibly presented figures but the percentage of runaways from foster homes isn't among them: http://www.nn4youth.org/system/files/FactSheet_Unacompanied_Youth_0.pdf

YOU'RE WELCOME. I mean, it's not like I had anything else to do besides look for the numbers and sources for you, no need to thank me.

Sorry, busy day. Started going over the more accessible one a while ago, it is appreciated.

Thank you, sorry for being snarky about it.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, interesting stats:

• More than one third of homeless youth engage in survival sex. (Ray, 2006)
• 162,000 homeless youth are estimated to be victims of commercial sexual exploitation in the United
States. (Estes & Weiner, 2001)

With this kind of stuff the real number is usually much higher. So that's some alarming numbers there.

The prevalence of sexual abuse ranges from 21% to 70% in some studies. Abuse and trauma are
further compounded by survival sex and other victimization. (YouthCare, Inc., 1998)
• According to YouthCare studies of a homeless youth sample, 33% had been in foster care, 51% had
been physically abused, and 60% of girls and 23% of boys had been sexually abused. (YouthCare,
Inc., 1998)
• In November 2002, the Department of Health and Human Services reported that between 21% and
40% of runaway youth had been sexually abused, compared to between 1% and 3% of the general
youth population. (American Civil Liberties Union, 2003)

Assuming no significant shifts, that's another angle on the checks. There's a vast established likehood of abuse, there's a significant chance the child has already suffered abuse so how much do you trust joe applicant? Enough to potentially risk your job if shit goes wrong?

That said, modern world and that, I would also assume there to be mandatory re-homing targets. Got to have some fresh faces, change the beds. I'd guess the troublesome kids would be those preferentially placed in those kind of situations.

Yes, it is horrible and dismal and grim.

What do you mean by "re-homing targets"?

Usually, in Oregon, kids who are known to be difficult are only placed with experienced foster parents. At least that's the ideal. Unfortunately, there is usually a shortage of foster parents and many of the experienced ones (I'd say about half) are the people who have figured out that if they have enough foster kids it'll pay for that remodel or that big house in the suburbs.

[Junkenstein]

By Rehoming targets I'm thinking something along the lines of group carers must place X% of children with applicants during Y period. That would kind of work with what you were saying about the remodeling stuff. The staff probably don't want to place any kid with joe scumbag, but they either do or get their funding cut/some other penalty. Basically think about how you would turn an orphanage into a corporation with the kids as assets. If it's not already happening, I bet it's coming.

I'll be starting on the first link today, I had a quick scan and I think it's going to take me a while to sift through it properly.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

By Rehoming targets I'm thinking something along the lines of group carers must place X% of children with applicants during Y period. That would kind of work with what you were saying about the remodeling stuff. The staff probably don't want to place any kid with joe scumbag, but they either do or get their funding cut/some other penalty. Basically think about how you would turn an orphanage into a corporation with the kids as assets. If it's not already happening, I bet it's coming.

I'll be starting on the first link today, I had a quick scan and I think it's going to take me a while to sift through it properly.

Ahhh. I think you are radically misunderstanding the foster care system in the US. We don't have orphanages anymore, we have the Department of Human Services, which is (under)staffed by social workers and volunteers. Foster homes are private individuals who are approved by the State. Foster parents receive a per-child stipend which is supposed to cover care and feeding, just under $600/month I believe. The State pays for therapy and medical care. Most foster homes can take in only one or two children, or a sibling group, while others (the group homes) can have up to 12.

While this system SOUNDS great, it has a lot of failings, and children still receive abuse and neglect at the hands of foster parents, as well as being moved often from home to home, which is very hard on the kids. There is a severe shortage of available foster parents. 

I spent one year working for the Regional Research Institute for Human Services, which works with foster kids and others who fall under the human services umbrella, such as people who are disabled, to try to investigate avenues for improving the standard of care and outcomes for these groups.

If my non-PD internet wasn't broken right now I would try to find some information that would give you a better picture of how things really work, but it's borked. Maybe it will be working tomorrow.