Love #1: A Declaration

[Salty]

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This has been brewing since I wrote my first rant here. Now's a good a time as any.
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Love. This word, this word I and countless others before (and certainly after) have obsessed over. This word that does not often appear in the context of discorida, except in the most peripheral, personal way. Though most other religions go to desperate lengths to define it, to own it, to gain full and complete understanding of this vaporous term.

Indeed many already claim it as their own. And they are not alone.

Every level of our culture seems, at least, quietly obsessed with love. And I do not intend to dissuade anyone from continuing this obsession. No. As I've said before, I seek clarity in all things. Clarity and genuine, tangible reality.

So, when I see an advertisement for the latest Nicholas Sparks smarmfest, or walk into a Hallmark store, or spend Valentines Day as a fully-formed and functional biped with a relentless hunger for truth and watch Business-As-Usual I can't help an urge to rip these illusions to threads.

After all, we know love isn't so straightforward, right? It's plain to see that beneath the saccharine superficiality that is the image of LOVE lies something else. So far, I can make out the vague shape of a sweating, panting, stinking BEAST. "A dog from Hell" as Bukowski put it. (Though have no fear, I won't be using him as a general authority on these matters.)

One thing I can promise, I will at no time try to define love.
I'm not so arrogant.

I will only attempt to peel away some of the layers of untruth, and maybe come to a closer understanding of what's really underneath. Maybe it's not a beast at all. But that top layer so many people take for granted...that's got to go. It has no more substance than a bag of Cheetohs or Newage* "philosophy".

And I hate it.

Or Kill Me.



*Which, as the satanists are fond of saying, rhymes with sewage.

[Doktor Howl]

I will define love:  That breathless period between meeting a woman, and discovering she looks like a haddock.

Also, love is the emotion that lets you experience all the others. 

[Salty]

I agree. What bothers me about the way love is often touted is that it should for some reason exclude some "less desirable" emotions. Like hate, fear, disappointment, anger, et al.

As with any other truth, the horrible plays a equal part right next to the euphoric.

[Doktor Howl]

I agree. What bothers me about the way love is often touted is that it should for some reason exclude some "less desirable" emotions. Like hate, fear, disappointment, anger, et al.

As with any other truth, the horrible plays a equal part right next to the euphoric.

Love is the CAUSE of many "less desirable emotions".  You can't hate until you've loved.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Love is the CAUSE of many "less desirable emotions".  You can't hate until you've loved.

I really like this.  Would you also say that you can't truly appreciate what love is until you have hated?

The both go hand in hand.  So many people that I love, I also absolutely despise at times.  Then again, there are people I hate whom I've never loved nor do I expect to.  So you can have hate without love, but you can't have love without hate? Hmmmmm.....

[BADGE OF HONOR]

The definition of love is mutable.  In upper-class medieval Europe, the ideal of love was the pained, distant, unrequited longing between a knight and someone else's wife.  Love was tormented chastity. 

Modern love is obviously something quite different.  And it has vast numbers of permutations.  Sexual love, parental love, love for friends, love of animals and inanimate objects, love for music and ideals.  Religious love.  The problem with "love" as a subject is that it's an incredibly vague word that can mean any number of things, but ultimately boils down to "a strong sense of feeling good".  Or at least, it does in this century.  Who knows what it will come to mean in the future?

[Eater of Clowns]

The definition of love is mutable.  In upper-class medieval Europe, the ideal of love was the pained, distant, unrequited longing between a knight and someone else's wife.  Love was tormented chastity. 

Modern love is obviously something quite different.  And it has vast numbers of permutations.  Sexual love, parental love, love for friends, love of animals and inanimate objects, love for music and ideals.  Religious love.  The problem with "love" as a subject is that it's an incredibly vague word that can mean any number of things, but ultimately boils down to "a strong sense of feeling good".  Or at least, it does in this century.  Who knows what it will come to mean in the future?

Merely not wishing harm upon them.

[Salty]

The definition of love is mutable.  In upper-class medieval Europe, the ideal of love was the pained, distant, unrequited longing between a knight and someone else's wife.  Love was tormented chastity. 

Modern love is obviously something quite different.  And it has vast numbers of permutations.  Sexual love, parental love, love for friends, love of animals and inanimate objects, love for music and ideals.  Religious love.  The problem with "love" as a subject is that it's an incredibly vague word that can mean any number of things, but ultimately boils down to "a strong sense of feeling good".  Or at least, it does in this century.  Who knows what it will come to mean in the future?

I find medieval courtly love fascinating and is actually the subject of Love #2.

As I said, I have no desire to define love, for the very reasons you mentioned.
So vague, so mutable (btw, thanks for that. I didn't have a good grasp on that word until now).
Yet humans place a great deal of importance on it. I know I've devoted a whole lot of my time, probably too much, thinking about it, looking for it, trying to understand it. And often I've thought I had it all firmly under my thumb.

It's this shifting, uneasily held down aspect that now appeals to me and, in my mind, makes it an ideal subject. People inject it into so much of their daily lives, their art, their work. Often without being able to help themselves. People take it for granted. 

Lots to dig through. 

And it's something I haven't seen discussed here much (though maybe I missed something, a lot of ground has been covered) and would like to see what you all have to say on the matter.

[Salty]

Love is the CAUSE of many "less desirable emotions".  You can't hate until you've loved.

I really like this.  Would you also say that you can't truly appreciate what love is until you have hated?

The both go hand in hand.  So many people that I love, I also absolutely despise at times.  Then again, there are people I hate whom I've never loved nor do I expect to.  So you can have hate without love, but you can't have love without hate? Hmmmmm.....

I find those that I hate without loving first often represent a lack of, or threat to, things I do love.

[Lord Cataplanga]

I know you said trying to define love is "arrogant" but...

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=what+is+love

A strong positive emotion of regard and affection, of the kind humans sometimes express toward one another and computational knowledge engines express toward the internet.

It's still a very vague definition that encompasses many different emotions, so perhaps it would be better to use different words for different kinds of love, like the Greeks do (Eros, philia, agape, mania, etc).

[Brotep]

i know you said trying to define love is "arrogant" but...[Stephen Wolfram]

Arrogant? Wolfram?


You do have a point there: we get confused and think of love as a single concept because we use the same word for a bunch of different concepts.

Welcome to PD, by the way.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Love is the CAUSE of many "less desirable emotions".  You can't hate until you've loved.

I really like this.  Would you also say that you can't truly appreciate what love is until you have hated?

The both go hand in hand.  So many people that I love, I also absolutely despise at times.  Then again, there are people I hate whom I've never loved nor do I expect to.  So you can have hate without love, but you can't have love without hate? Hmmmmm.....

I find those that I hate without loving first often represent a lack of, or threat to, things I do love.

You may be right.  So love IS involved in the hate process.  In this being the protection of it.  Hmmm....  Yes, I can agree with that.

[BADGE OF HONOR]

I think humans are built to love.  Everything is easier when you do what you love (spiritually, at least).  Life becomes easier to live when in the thrall of a fresh new romance.  Parents are chemically designed to love their children, despite them being ungrateful little shits.  Love sets all sorts of juices flowing, in the brain and elsewhere.  

But is it necessary?  Is a human who is incapable of love a sociopath?

Edit: yeah pretty sure that's the definition of a sociopath.  Hurf.