So, Richter, Goddamn Reactor 106 Threw Its Agitator Again.

[Doktor Howl]

So, yeah, you're the maintenance chief, and therefore you are to blame for things when they break.  It doesn't matter that the installation was properly done, and that the parts were good...and that some geek in operations left the agitator on when he pumped the product over to the feed tanks, allowing the agitator to freewheel, and thus bend.  No, you're the maintenance chief, so when something breaks, you're responsible.  Heaven forbid the little darlings take responsibility for their actions, right?  As long as the management team believes that improper operation isn't happening, they don't have to deal with an ugly situation.  But their belief doesn't prevent the plant from hemmoraging money, does it?

But it's not just the plant, Richter.  I can look on tables and see at which point a bolt will sheer, or a strut fail, or when metal will anneal.  This data is all available, and has been for more than a hundred years.  But where is the information listed that shows when a human will bend and break?  What is the rated crush depth of a man?

Sometimes the question is physical, and easier to answer.  How much actual weight can a human pick up?  This can be answered, on an individual basis, simply by testing and gathering data.  Sometimes the question is emotional...How often can you have your heart broken, before it becomes a mass of callouses and you stop giving a shit?  This requires destructive testing.  You can't really know until failure occurs.

And sometimes it's a little deeper.  How often can your basic assumptions of how the world (and the people on it) operates, and still give a shit about whether or not it functions at all?  Or even worse, how long before you protect your ideological territory by wrapping yourself in a belief system, and not allowing yourself or anyone else to question it?  It's a lot of work to get yourself out of that trap, and most people aren't willing to do it.

For example, for decades I believed that somewhere, some place, there were people who could see the world the way it really was...That could deal with facts on their own merit, and not hammer them into weird shapes that fit a pre-existing ideology that they've fallen in love with...That could deal with a situation logically and fairly, without screaming and planting their heels.

First, I thought these people were the Church of the Subgenius.  They seemed to have their shit together, at least at first, but sometime around 1994 they turned into a collection of tragically hip retards who endlessly cycle the same tired jokes, and worse.  I watched on alt.slack, as one lady asked a simple question, and was told that the person asking "has no time to cater to fangirls".  Needless to say, I won't be asking any questions of them.

Then I tried out Discordianism.  I had been around the scene since the 80s, but only peripherally until about 2000 or so.  For quite some time, I really enjoyed myself...Until the inevitable happened, and the horde turned and began to feed on itself.  People that startled me with their humor and their intelligence - myself included, I imagine - began to stake out intellectual turf, and did their level best to wound anyone who intruded on that territory.  It's been like that for 6 months now, and I don't see it getting any better.  It won't.  It can't.  We've built our comfortable Black Iron prisons, and we'll punish anyone who tries to free us.

Who would have guessed that we'd reach our collective breaking point at about the same time?

Well, that's going to change, at least in my case.  I am abandoning politics, and any attempt to talk anyone out of anything, no matter how accurate or inaccurate their beliefs are.  There's simply no percentage in it.  My focus from now on will be strictly limited to punishing the primates for their various and sundry follies, and "solutions" will not be attempted or even considered.  Humans won't listen to solutions unless those solutions agree with what they already believe, and that includes each and every one of us.  "Science" is impossible, because everyone in the world today operates strictly on beliefs they've converted to, opposing facts notwithstanding.  Man "thinks", and the Gods laugh.

So have your beliefs, mortals, and be damned.

Okay for now,
Dok

[LMNO]

Well said, Dok.

We all get comfortable.  Sometimes we don't even realize how comfortable we've gotten, even as we hurl epithets at each other over matters that shouldn't be so life and death.

[Richter]

This speaks to me, Dok.  It speaks to me about the sad little truth behind the grand contructs and soaring ideals of man.  It is a pitiful, nasty, low sort of thign when you realize, a soiled diaper held up over a crotch full of scrawny genitalia in the name of modesty.  Natural fail concealed by personal fail.  The attitude of shaking my at life like it's a derisive pediatrican has served me well sofar, and avoids such awkwardness.


Human Failure Point:

People do a few things when they hit that depth.  Depends entirely on their brain structure, and the societally expected add ons.  
Ever hear of the "money Pit"?  A priate hidey hole, built like an inverted spire, a gapping mw full of progressively moe impassable problems and agressive defense?  I think our brains are like this

Drop some into the pressure far enough, the personality / stress accepting emchanism fails horribly internalizing.  It runs the remains of that personality right itno the morality strut.  "I can't freak out", "I can't loose it", "I can't let it out.", the morality just won't let them go to the next lower level of self diaster recovery, and they turn into a nervosing failure.  
Useless.

Some of us well, that morality strut isn't wuite in the way.  Maybe it's gotten shaken by previous impact.  Maybe we were jsut enver assembled properly.  We get that moment of clarity as we fly past the strut, now and then.  

"I could stop this..."

Then we're past it and the lizard brain is driving.  That intoxicating, doubtless, malicious bastard.  The one rated to face wrestle a saber - tooth tiger as needed, and make Conan look like a librarian.  
This was original human spec., and is in the end user agreement.  Some fuckers didn't read the manual, and act surprised.
HR is always appauled, but someone should have told the corporate happymaker (read - useless) department that it is impossible to hire a personality the consistency of battenberg cake.  You can, at best, hire approximations.
It's hard to tell the cake full of superflous expectational and behavioal struts form the ones containing horrible caveman violence implements until it's too late.
Blessed be the throwbacks.
Ook ook fucker.

Meddling apes:
SOme people don't avoid failure though.  "Permanent", "Unsinkable", or "indestructbile are some of the more disastrous flavors of human delusion.  They think things are reliable, and will jump up and down smilling and saying "It SHOULD work!", or "The Manual told me SO!"

Yeah...

"Should", and the manual do not trump physics.  Physics trumps all.  Math shall pwn, for ever and ever for it's is the kingdom.

I'm running a few degrees of fever and dealing with some gnarly folks.

[Doktor Howl]

Well said, Dok.

We all get comfortable.  Sometimes we don't even realize how comfortable we've gotten, even as we hurl epithets at each other over matters that shouldn't be so life and death.

This is exactly it.  We've become comfortable with feeding off one another.

When's the last time anyone here has laughed their ass off at something posted on PD?  I don't mean something reposted from youtube or ebaum or any of that shit, but anything originally posted here?

No, we've become just another version of Capitol Grilling...5 or 6 factions bitterly attacking each other over the same topic, again and again.  Or ignoring those we feel have somehow become beneath our notice.

In short, just another pack of monkeys, ready to fight and die over things that don't matter.  Over opinion, and what's more, opinion of how the rest of the monkeys on the planet manage - or fail to manage - their affairs.

Just when did we start identifying ourselves by what factions of the fucking monkeys believe?  When did we start siding up with packs of so-called bipeds and their stupid political philosophies?

Opinion = Politics = Stupid monkey bullshit.  If you have attached yourself to a political philosophy, congratulations and here's your cage.  Start hooting with all the other fucking apes.  Beat your chest and scream, and forget that you were once something better.

Democrats.  Republicans.  Libertarians.  Anarchists.  All just tribes of monkeys, looking for something to throw their shit at.  Not a fucking human in sight.

If anyone here really wants to bury themselves in primate shit and scream that it's good, go right ahead.  If you want to believe in things that don't exist (Chaos Magick, etc), knock yourself out.  Jump in that fucking cave and beat on a hollow log, charge your sigils, and keep the evil spirits away, or whatever the hell you do with that stuff.  Have a great time, I won't try to stop you, or even mock you.  There's no sense to it, really, because you believe whatever you're going to believe, and nothing will change your mind.  Your Black Iron Prison Fortress is impregnable, and you wouldn't have it any other way.

The fact that reality is still there waiting to knock your teeth out is another matter, of course, but hardly my concern.  I'm dedicating myself to being a human, and doing my level best to see reality as it IS, not as how I want it to be.  I'll fail a lot of the time, of course, as I think this sort of thing takes practice and hard work, but hopefully, I will improve at it.

I'm also going to be a little friendlier, as I no longer have the stress of trying to convince anyone that they're busy welding themselves into The Machine™.  I won't try to save anyone, because I can't save anyone...I'm not even sure I can save myself.  You're on your own.  We all are.   We have been for 6 months, since this shit started.

Okay for now,
Dok

[Doktor Howl]

Blessed be the throwbacks.
Ook ook fucker.

Meddling apes:
SOme people don't avoid failure though.  "Permanent", "Unsinkable", or "indestructbile are some of the more disastrous flavors of human delusion.  They think things are reliable, and will jump up and down smilling and saying "It SHOULD work!", or "The Manual told me SO!"

Yeah...

"Should", and the manual do not trump physics.  Physics trumps all.  Math shall pwn, for ever and ever for it's is the kingdom.

I'm running a few degrees of fever and dealing with some gnarly folks.

Precisely.  Reality IS.  It may be shaped by events, but it isn't shaped by beliefs, or sigils, or that ironclad political/economic theory that works like clockwork on paper.  You can pretend, you can fool yourself, you can screech and shout about what your favorite guru has told you to believe...You can listen to the Gods of the Marketplace (as Kipling called them, in a poem called "The Gods of the Copybook Headings, which I strongly recommend to anyone...It's public domain, and can be googled and read off the internet.), but the Gods of the Copybook Headings, the keepers of accounts, will have to school you eventually, usually by smashing you flat with the reality that you spent so much time denying.

Kipling was a hell of a man, he influenced and was influenced by Theodore Roosevelt, and both of them understood one thing very well:  Taking comfort in pleasing lies is beneath actual humans.

Another thing:  The moment you stop questioning your beliefs, you drop onto your knuckles.

[Richter]

The whole point of half of the magicquefrag, seems, wasn't the end result, it was the process.  COnvince yourself you cast a spell, or made an effective sigil, caused quarters to appear, ANYTHING.  If that's your goal, to convince yourself that you made things happen, then you've just become very adept at self - foolin'. 
You just managed to arbitrarily add a belief to the otherwise turbulent, hormonally prioritized, meat thinker you came stock equiped with.  This should tell somethign to you not about REALITY (and reality being adjsutable by unrealted ritual), but about BELIEF (being as adjsutable, changeable, and containing as pants).

[Doktor Howl]

The whole point of half of the magicquefrag, seems, wasn't the end result, it was the process.  COnvince yourself you cast a spell, or made an effective sigil, caused quarters to appear, ANYTHING.  If that's your goal, to convince yourself that you made things happen, then you've just become very adept at self - foolin'. 
You just managed to arbitrarily add a belief to the otherwise turbulent, hormonally prioritized, meat thinker you came stock equiped with.  This should tell somethign to you not about REALITY (and reality being adjsutable by unrealted ritual), but about BELIEF (being as adjsutable, changeable, and containing as pants).

Well, I'm not going to argue the magick thing anymore, because it's really kind of pointless, both for the reason you state, and because it does no good to pound on the walls of someone else's BIF.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

Another thing:  The moment you stop questioning your beliefs, you drop onto your knuckles.

I really like it all and I agree with you, I don't think it's worth the effort anymore. 

This one statement though is so flat out on target it should be on the fucking money.

[Richter]

The whole point of half of the magicquefrag, seems, wasn't the end result, it was the process.  COnvince yourself you cast a spell, or made an effective sigil, caused quarters to appear, ANYTHING.  If that's your goal, to convince yourself that you made things happen, then you've just become very adept at self - foolin'. 
You just managed to arbitrarily add a belief to the otherwise turbulent, hormonally prioritized, meat thinker you came stock equiped with.  This should tell somethign to you not about REALITY (and reality being adjsutable by unrealted ritual), but about BELIEF (being as adjsutable, changeable, and containing as pants).

Well, I'm not going to argue the magick thing anymore, because it's really kind of pointless, both for the reason you state, and because it does no good to pound on the walls of someone else's BIF.

Fair enough.
I like the point about Kipling and Roosevelt, too.  Especially since despite that stance, they still found things worthwhile.  Being the sort that can deal with it all without emotionally supportive props seems like a worthwhile thing.

[Doktor Howl]

Another thing:  The moment you stop questioning your beliefs, you drop onto your knuckles.

I really like it all and I agree with you, I don't think it's worth the effort anymore. 

This one statement though is so flat out on target it should be on the fucking money.

Thanks.  I've been trying to figure out how to word that for weeks.

[Doktor Howl]

Fair enough.
I like the point about Kipling and Roosevelt, too.  Especially since despite that stance, they still found things worthwhile.  Being the sort that can deal with it all without emotionally supportive props seems like a worthwhile thing.

I've never understood the need for props, whether that means "magick" or political philosophy.  We have two arms, two legs, a functioning brain, friends, family, everything we need.  You use crutches when your legs are crippled or injured.  If your brain isn't crippled or injured, why would you need mental crutches?  All they cause is atrophy.

By virtue of being at this board, I consider you and all the other members inherently superior to the vast majority of the population.  If I didn't, I wouldn't be a Discordian (Yes, that's a belief, but one that most of the time seems to be supported by facts).  Given that, I don't see why the world can't be faced on its own terms, without the use of props.  Yeah, the world is scary, but it's fun, too.

Many monkeys NEED to identify with a religious, political, or economic philosophy, to give them a sense of tribe, of belonging...Even of self-worth.  They define themselves as anarchists, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, Baptists, what have you.  We don't NEED to do that...and I am puzzled why so many insist on doing so.

[Freeky]

Many monkeys NEED to identify with a religious, political, or economic philosophy, to give them a sense of tribe, of belonging...Even of self-worth.  They define themselves as anarchists, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, Baptists, what have you.  We don't NEED to do that...and I am puzzled why so many insist on doing so.

Because its scary, not being part of a group. It means that you don't have a bunch of monkeys that think like you. It means if you spout off your beliefs in the presence of some other monkey's tribe, you don't have anyone to stand behind you. This is why Beck, Hannity, all them are so popular. They are the Alpha monkeys, the ones mere mortals can point to and screech "THEY said my beliefs is okay!"

[Doktor Howl]

Many monkeys NEED to identify with a religious, political, or economic philosophy, to give them a sense of tribe, of belonging...Even of self-worth.  They define themselves as anarchists, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, Baptists, what have you.  We don't NEED to do that...and I am puzzled why so many insist on doing so.

Because its scary, not being part of a group. It means that you don't have a bunch of monkeys that think like you. It means if you spout off your beliefs in the presence of some other monkey's tribe, you don't have anyone to stand behind you. This is why Beck, Hannity, all them are so popular. They are the Alpha monkeys, the ones mere mortals can point to and screech "THEY said my beliefs is okay!"

But we ARE part of a group.  We're Discordians...Or at least I thought we were.  There must be some deficiency in Discordianism that makes its members seek other tribalisms.  Paganism is the same...The entire movement consists of outre, radical, "different", token "conservopagans" that shriek night and day to show that they are the edgy ones, that can be far-right wingnuts AND worship Gods from completely unrelated pantheons all at once. 

Here, it's libertarianism, liberalism, and "rational anarchy", I suppose, along with various gurus that people have chosen to hand their brains over to.

[Freeky]

Many monkeys NEED to identify with a religious, political, or economic philosophy, to give them a sense of tribe, of belonging...Even of self-worth.  They define themselves as anarchists, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, Baptists, what have you.  We don't NEED to do that...and I am puzzled why so many insist on doing so.

Because its scary, not being part of a group. It means that you don't have a bunch of monkeys that think like you. It means if you spout off your beliefs in the presence of some other monkey's tribe, you don't have anyone to stand behind you. This is why Beck, Hannity, all them are so popular. They are the Alpha monkeys, the ones mere mortals can point to and screech "THEY said my beliefs is okay!"

But we ARE part of a group.  We're Discordians...Or at least I thought we were.  There must be some deficiency in Discordianism that makes its members seek other tribalisms.  Paganism is the same...The entire movement consists of outre, radical, "different", token "conservopagans" that shriek night and day to show that they are the edgy ones, that can be far-right wingnuts AND worship Gods from completely unrelated pantheons all at once.  

Here, it's libertarianism, liberalism, and "rational anarchy", I suppose, along with various gurus that people have chosen to hand their brains over to.

True enough. I was speaking of people as a whole, not us in particular. Not everyone here has politcal leanings, although I do see quite a few that do.

Maybe it's like one of those collector mentalities. Some people collect crying clown crap, some do cats, and some need political/religious/economic views. Or something.

[Requia ☣]

Many monkeys NEED to identify with a religious, political, or economic philosophy, to give them a sense of tribe, of belonging...Even of self-worth.  They define themselves as anarchists, conservatives, liberals, libertarians, Baptists, what have you.  We don't NEED to do that...and I am puzzled why so many insist on doing so.

Because its scary, not being part of a group. It means that you don't have a bunch of monkeys that think like you. It means if you spout off your beliefs in the presence of some other monkey's tribe, you don't have anyone to stand behind you. This is why Beck, Hannity, all them are so popular. They are the Alpha monkeys, the ones mere mortals can point to and screech "THEY said my beliefs is okay!"

But we ARE part of a group.  We're Discordians...Or at least I thought we were.  There must be some deficiency in Discordianism that makes its members seek other tribalisms.  Paganism is the same...The entire movement consists of outre, radical, "different", token "conservopagans" that shriek night and day to show that they are the edgy ones, that can be far-right wingnuts AND worship Gods from completely unrelated pantheons all at once. 

Here, it's libertarianism, liberalism, and "rational anarchy", I suppose, along with various gurus that people have chosen to hand their brains over to.

Discordianism doesn't have a cage though, at least not here, where the pinealists and various dogmatic assholes whose threads you dig up have been chased away.  So you have to have something else if you want a cage.