Antilibertarianism

[Cramulus]

If the political system corrupts everybody who goes through it, I'm wondering what the merits might be of a completely random leader selection process that is repeated every couple years or so. Maybe something like jury duty. I mean, the general public does contain all sorts of schmucks that should probably never be in power, but at least the results should be entertaining.

Wait, why am I even posting this?

the greeks experimented with a system in which the senators would be chosen by lottery.

They thought that elections tend to select a certain type of people, and that group of people can't possibly represent the general pubic. Maybe it's better to have a random sampling of elected leaders, thereby ensuring that the government is a reflection of the populace.

The consequence was that that even your idiot neighbor could get elected - you know, the guy who you don't trust to drive a car, let alone make high-impact societally affecting decisions? So they tossed out that one.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

and that group of people can't possibly represent the general pubic.

Hee hee hee!

Yes, I'm 13 on the inside. WHAT.

[Jasper]

Maybe a mixture of lottery and approval voting would work.

Get a crowd of lottery-picked citizens, say fifty.  Some won't want to campaign.  Keep replacing the unwilling until you have 50 willing candidates.

Give them each a wad of cash and an advisor to help them put together and run a campaign.

Have a partial approval vote where everyone chooses the 25 they want most.

Put them all together and have each of them perform approval votes on each bill.

To enforce non-corruption, they are kept in nice accommodations, taken care of, provided for, and granted a sizable stipend after their term.  Corporate lobbyists must go through the voting public to have their interests advanced. 

I call it "Jesus Christ, what does a fucker have to do for some representation around here?"

[BabylonHoruv]

How do we get both rights and services?  In my opinion by devolving as much government function to a local level as possible, and by holding the local fucks accountable (because we actually can) 

Congratulations, interracial marriage is now illegal in the south. To a certain extent, you need a strong central gov't to keep the local ones in line.

So if you are an interracial couple you move.  And probably not all that far even.  Although some parts of the south would be redneck cracker heaven, other parts would be all black and other parts would be a mix.  Yes, there would be areas of injustice, but as it is instead of keeping their injustice confined to their own areas the assholes push it onto a national level.

[Doktor Howl]

How do we get both rights and services?  In my opinion by devolving as much government function to a local level as possible, and by holding the local fucks accountable (because we actually can)  

Congratulations, interracial marriage is now illegal in the south. To a certain extent, you need a strong central gov't to keep the local ones in line.

So if you are an interracial couple you move.  And probably not all that far even.  Although some parts of the south would be redneck cracker heaven, other parts would be all black and other parts would be a mix.  Yes, there would be areas of injustice, but as it is instead of keeping their injustice confined to their own areas the assholes push it onto a national level.

BACK TO 1966!  WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[BabylonHoruv]

How do we get both rights and services?  In my opinion by devolving as much government function to a local level as possible, and by holding the local fucks accountable (because we actually can) 

Congratulations, interracial marriage is now illegal in the south. To a certain extent, you need a strong central gov't to keep the local ones in line.

You need one to a big damn extent. Otherwise you end up with sunset towns and lynchings all over again.

No, no, Local governments are always best.  Like Jasper, Texas.

Or the entire state of Arizona.

Yeah.

Arizona is not local.

[Doktor Howl]

How do we get both rights and services?  In my opinion by devolving as much government function to a local level as possible, and by holding the local fucks accountable (because we actually can) 

Congratulations, interracial marriage is now illegal in the south. To a certain extent, you need a strong central gov't to keep the local ones in line.

You need one to a big damn extent. Otherwise you end up with sunset towns and lynchings all over again.

No, no, Local governments are always best.  Like Jasper, Texas.

Or the entire state of Arizona.

Yeah.

Arizona is not local.

Okay, Maricopa County.

[Doktor Howl]

This is awesome.  So the argument is that it's okay to locally take peoples' rights away.

Because everyone can just pick up and move if they don't like it.

[Doktor Howl]

Good thing I'm not a junkie or anything.

I CAN QUIT POLITICS ANY TIME I WANT.   

[BabylonHoruv]

This is awesome.  So the argument is that it's okay to locally take peoples' rights away.

Because everyone can just pick up and move if they don't like it.

Easier to change counties than to change states, or countries.

Basically my assumption is that there are enough people out there set on taking away other people's rights that they are going to do it, no matter what and I'd rather they do it in their locality rather than the whole state, or the whole country.

[Doktor Howl]

This is awesome.  So the argument is that it's okay to locally take peoples' rights away.

Because everyone can just pick up and move if they don't like it.

Easier to change counties than to change states, or countries.

Basically my assumption is that there are enough people out there set on taking away other people's rights that they are going to do it, no matter what and I'd rather they do it in their locality rather than the whole state, or the whole country.

So if you're too poor to move, you have no actual rights at all.

That's awesome. 

[Doktor Howl]

Hilarious part about this is why already tried decentralized government (google "articles of confederation").  It didn't work for shit, by why NOT commit to a failed ideology?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

So you have a house, kids, you're invested in your area, and the laws change, so you should sell your house (what happens when there's a recession and your loan is upside-down, dumbass?) uproot your family, and go somewhere else?

BRILLIANT system. Great Social Justice, there.

[Doktor Howl]

So you have a house, kids, you're invested in your area, and the laws change, so you should sell your house (what happens when there's a recession and your loan is upside-down, dumbass?) uproot your family, and go somewhere else?

BRILLIANT system. Great Social Justice, there.

No amount of logical contortions and ruined lives can be allowed to stand between us and The Perfect Ideology™.

[BabylonHoruv]

So you have a house, kids, you're invested in your area, and the laws change, so you should sell your house (what happens when there's a recession and your loan is upside-down, dumbass?) uproot your family, and go somewhere else?

BRILLIANT system. Great Social Justice, there.

Or you could work to change the laws back.  Which is going to be a lot easier if they are local then if they are state laws, or federal laws.