Antilibertarianism

[Doktor Howl]

So you have a house, kids, you're invested in your area, and the laws change, so you should sell your house (what happens when there's a recession and your loan is upside-down, dumbass?) uproot your family, and go somewhere else?

BRILLIANT system. Great Social Justice, there.

Or you could work to change the laws back.  Which is going to be a lot easier if they are local then if they are state laws, or federal laws.

"Sorry, we decided you don't get to vote in this county."

[BabylonHoruv]

You are bringing up problems with any system and applying them specifically to mine, yes, people are shitty and will do bad things to people.  it's easier to get people to be less shitty if you are dealing with people that you know and live close to, and who number in the thousands, than it is to get people to be less shitty when they live thousands of miles away and number in the millions and you don't know anything about them.

[Doktor Howl]

You are bringing up problems with any system and applying them specifically to mine, yes, people are shitty and will do bad things to people.  it's easier to get people to be less shitty if you are dealing with people that you know and live close to, and who number in the thousands, than it is to get people to be less shitty when they live thousands of miles away and number in the millions and you don't know anything about them.

Tell it to James Byrd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Byrd,_Jr.

[Doktor Howl]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

[BabylonHoruv]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

Well, thos are both problems that existed under the current system at one point.  And they wern't solved by the federal government imposing fairness, it did that after people at the local level fought hard to imrpove things and point out the injustices.

[Doktor Howl]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

Well, thos are both problems that existed under the current system at one point.  And they wern't solved by the federal government imposing fairness, it did that after people at the local level fought hard to imrpove things and point out the injustices.

So you wish me to trade back down to those days?

And they fucking WERE solved by imposed fairness at the federal level.  The Loving Decision (Scotus) in regard to the interracial marriage thing, and the Voter Registration Act, both supported by amendment XIV.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

Well, thos are both problems that existed under the current system at one point.  And they wern't solved by the federal government imposing fairness, it did that after people at the local level fought hard to imrpove things and point out the injustices.

ORLY? 

[Doktor Howl]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

Well, thos are both problems that existed under the current system at one point.  And they wern't solved by the federal government imposing fairness, it did that after people at the local level fought hard to imrpove things and point out the injustices.

ORLY? 

And it was very brave of those Little Rock citizens to oppose the military's attempt to keep those Black kids out of a White school.

[Juana]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

Well, thos are both problems that existed under the current system at one point.  And they wern't solved by the federal government imposing fairness, it did that after people at the local level fought hard to imrpove things and point out the injustices.

Please research the Civil Rights movement. People who were trying to change things at the local level were lynched, beaten, murdered, raped, and otherwise assaulted because of it. It took a lot of upward pressure to get it, but federal help was required to get quite a lot of the stuff you and I take for granted (integrated schools, legalization of interracial marriage, anti-lynching laws, justice for murdered civil rights agitators, etc.).

And anyway, if you were to apply your idea to the present day, the long term, ingrained effects of the way our country used to be are STILL here. The ones most likely to suffer under that system have no money to move with.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, since when is not being able to vote or interracially marry a problem with any system?

Well, thos are both problems that existed under the current system at one point.  And they wern't solved by the federal government imposing fairness, it did that after people at the local level fought hard to imrpove things and point out the injustices.

ORLY? 

And it was very brave of those Little Rock citizens to oppose the military's attempt to keep those Black kids out of a White school.

Someone is trying to argue a history they aren't very familiar with...

[Requia ☣]

The racial equality thing was done top-down, but other big changes have been bottom up, if individual states and territories* hadn't had the the ability to give women the right to vote, it would have taken far longer to push that through at a federal level, and even if the ammendment had gone though on the same day, it would have cut off all the women in the places that did push it through ahead of that.

*Territories lost this, cause the feds didn't like it, but it started in places that weren't yet states.

[Vene]

The racial equality thing was done top-down, but other big changes have been bottom up, if individual states and territories* hadn't had the the ability to give women the right to vote, it would have taken far longer to push that through at a federal level, and even if the ammendment had gone though on the same day, it would have cut off all the women in the places that did push it through ahead of that.

*Territories lost this, cause the feds didn't like it, but it started in places that weren't yet states.

Which says to me that going either giving the federal government lots of power or giving the local government lots of power is a false dichotomy. Give the states (or counties) too much power and you'll wind up with massive inequalities within one country, but if you give the central government too much power then you no longer have the chance for grassroots movements to pop up and change things for the better.

Or, to throw out something slightly related, we're too big for our own damn good. Maybe once a government gets to be too large it can't effectively put forth laws and such that apply for the entire nation. But, this is the kind of thought that pops into my head at one in the am so I can't guarantee it has any bearing on reality.

[Kai]

How about the system we have right now, except more social benefits and more regulation on individuals and corporations that wield massive power?

[Requia ☣]

Different policies, same assholes running the show.

[Jasper]

But

Different policies, same assholes running the show.

As things stand we are actively tolerating the current system.  That says to me that any improvements to the current, eminently tolerable system would make it more tolerable.

Just saying.