I love the queers

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Also, I feel like there is a lot of immaturity involved in wanting/assuming that other people spend that much time thinking about you.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Unless I have some sort of reason to believe otherwise, I start out thinking as someone of their biological gender.  Statistically I am correct ~ 90% or more of the time.  I have no intention of starting a conversation like this:

Me:  Hi, I'm Roger.

Other person:  Hi, I'm Fred.

Me:  What pronoun do you use?

Nope.  Not gonna do it.  Because it's silly.

On the other hand, a conversation could go like this:

Me:  Hey, dude...

Fred:  Um, I think of my self as female.

Me:  Okay...Hey, lady...

Then everyone is happy.  I'm not going to take the time to be nice and awkward with 90%+ of the people I meet, unless it's funny. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

There's also a control issue here.

I don't give a shit what gender someone thinks of themselves as, unless it somehow becomes relevant.

But having to ask someone when I don't care puts THEIR Cause on me.  If they want a different pronoun, they can tell me.  That way, their Cause is on them.  Not that I am against their Cause, but it isn't MY Cause, and I have enough Causes of my own.  I am not required to adopt every Cause I run into as a personal crusade.  I'll HELP if I agree with the Cause in question, but I am not going to throw on a sackcloth and start preaching the word.

Because, in this case (for example), gender identity doesn't matter to me.  My daughter feels differently,  but again, that's HER Cause, not mine.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Unless I have some sort of reason to believe otherwise, I start out thinking as someone of their biological gender.  Statistically I am correct ~ 90% or more of the time.  I have no intention of starting a conversation like this:

Me:  Hi, I'm Roger.

Other person:  Hi, I'm Fred.

Me:  What pronoun do you use?

Nope.  Not gonna do it.  Because it's silly.

On the other hand, a conversation could go like this:

Me:  Hey, dude...

Fred:  Um, I think of my self as female.

Me:  Okay...Hey, lady...

Then everyone is happy.  I'm not going to take the time to be nice and awkward with 90%+ of the people I meet, unless it's funny.

That's pretty much how I roll. It works, and it's not weird or invasive.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

There's also a control issue here.

I don't give a shit what gender someone thinks of themselves as, unless it somehow becomes relevant.

But having to ask someone when I don't care puts THEIR Cause on me.  If they want a different pronoun, they can tell me.  That way, their Cause is on them.  Not that I am against their Cause, but it isn't MY Cause, and I have enough Causes of my own.  I am not required to adopt every Cause I run into as a personal crusade.  I'll HELP if I agree with the Cause in question, but I am not going to throw on a sackcloth and start preaching the word.

Because, in this case (for example), gender identity doesn't matter to me.  My daughter feels differently,  but again, that's HER Cause, not mine.

YES, THANK YOU.

Someone's gender is not any of my business UNLESS for some reason, it is. And I don't CARE what gender someone is, I don't CARE if their gender is so so so important to them and their identity that they really really REALLY want me to be thinking about it. I have different things to worry about, things that I consider a lot more important than how some random stranger I just met gender-identifies.

A lot of things are really really REALLY important to me. They are, however, not some random stranger I just met's business and I'm not going to insist that they MUST THINK ABOUT THEM, A LOT, because they're so important to my ME ME ME ME ME my self-identity.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Ah my head hurts. This would be easier to read with avatars.

Anyway id find it pretty jarring is someone asked me about my pronouns until i read this. If i get asked it hence forth i will confusedly look in my pants and then insist that they use the irish language pronouns for a male. Which also makes me hope this happens now.

That said i will refer to garbo plurally in the third person.

[EK WAFFLR]

I gave up this shit when I ran across a support group for cis-male lesbians online.

I am in full agreement with TGRR here. If someone tells me they want to be referred to as something else, I change the way I talk about them, but I sure as fuck won't ask people about preferred pronouns. Ever.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Not to insult the whole idea of gender fluidity and all that sort of thing. Its just not something i would like to be asked. I dunno maybe i think things are getting overly complicated. I do like the idea of a gender neutral third and they works well. You and i/we dont have gender modifiers.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Yeah- im with you on that waffles.

Like im a dude who is primarily attracted to females. Bisexual works fine for me. I saw pixie using the terms heteroflexible and homoflexible which i dont even know what those mean. It made me laugh when i read it. It was in support of me so i was grateful for it but as far as i am concerned if you are sexually attracted to both males and females youre bi no further detail necessary.

[Pæs]

I don't really have any hard and fast rules about it.

I generally work with the same system Roger describes as effective ~ 90% of the time, addressing people by what I interpret as their presented gender, unless I'm in a situation where that percentage is likely to drop (spaces where gender identity is important to many of those present).

I find the question awkward, even in some of these spaces, so I'll just avoid referring to gender at all and attempts to use names instead. There are some places, though, where it's totally cool to ask about pronouns as part of an introduction and if that's what people want in those places, it doesn't hurt me any to go along with it.

Some people are really serious about the importance of not making assumptions wrt each other's gender. I'm not invested enough in a contrary opinion to disagree with them.

ETA: The problem with an  inconsistent approach to asking about pronouns is that if it's not something you ask everyone, you risk offending by asking. The rarity of the question makes asking a person-who-was-assigned-female-at-birth-but-who-unintentionally-could-be-perceived-as-presenting-as-male "what gender pronoun do you prefer" suggest more than you may like it to.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Would it not be easier in those situations just to refer to everyone as they then? Maybe its because i am cis-betesticled but i really dont think much about my gender identity unless im trying to figure out where the restroom is.

[Pæs]

Would it not be easier in those situations just to refer to everyone as they then? Maybe its because i am cis-betesticled but i really dont think much about my gender identity unless im trying to figure out where the restroom is.

Those situations are usually gatherings of people who have fairly strong feelings about gender assumptions being made and it doesn't do me any harm to be considerate of those feelings. My own gender-identity isn't of interest to me then, but if someone feels like I respect them more because I ask, I don't mind asking.

"They" is a word that can be used, yeah, and I'd probably use it (and mix it up with their name so as not to sound repetitious) if I hadn't asked.

[Juana]

Thanks, Twid. I appreciate it.

I don't assume people spend time thinking about me. I am pretty unremarkable. It did, however, come across as passive aggressive swipes. Which was apparently not your intent (I have a long history of dealing with people who are insanely passive aggressive, so I imagine that's part of why).


My gender is important to me. I care minimally about other people's gender because, well, it's their business and I don't care how they identify because that's THEIR identity.

I've reconsidered my opinion on asking up front, though. Not everybody wants other people to know or is ready to/interested in coming out. If they want me to know, they'll tell me.

[Juana]

"cis-male lesbians"? ...What? Are you sure that wasn't a troll? Because that would be an excellent troll.

[Pæs]

I feel I should clarify that situations where I feel it would be appropriate to include questions about pronouns are remarkably rare.