ATTN: Ratatosk, and assorted others

[Doktor Howl]

Also, tax it, and use the proceeds to pay for proper healthcare reform.

Would help the economy some also.

Yes!
We, the people, should be able to buy back the inalienable rights that were stolen from us!

Freedom isn't free.  You need a tax stamp.  That's why we fought the revolution, after all and...um.  Wait.

[Doktor Howl]

Sorry, RWHN, I still think drugs should be completely legalized.

Everyone has the right to fuck themselves up in any way they choose.

But adolescents don't have the mental capacity to make those adult decisions. 

Sure.  Alcohol is legal, and we don't let kids drink it legally.

[AFK]

Sorry, RWHN, I still think drugs should be completely legalized.

Everyone has the right to fuck themselves up in any way they choose.

This!

The fact that they are illegal is what makes most drugs interesting in the first place.

Not really, it's more the fact that parents don't want them to do it. Part of rebellion against parental authority.   I don't imagine that would change all that much if drugs were legalized. 

[Doktor Howl]

Sorry, RWHN, I still think drugs should be completely legalized.

Everyone has the right to fuck themselves up in any way they choose.

This!

The fact that they are illegal is what makes most drugs interesting in the first place.

Not really, it's more the fact that parents don't want them to do it. Part of rebellion against parental authority.   I don't imagine that would change all that much if drugs were legalized. 

I don't see an increase in use occurring if they were legal for adults.  The kids who would do drugs are already doing them.

What I'd see is a hell of a lot less kids with felony convictions hanging around their necks for the rest of their lives.

[Adios]

Sorry, RWHN, I still think drugs should be completely legalized.

Everyone has the right to fuck themselves up in any way they choose.

This!

The fact that they are illegal is what makes most drugs interesting in the first place.

Not really, it's more the fact that parents don't want them to do it. Part of rebellion against parental authority.   I don't imagine that would change all that much if drugs were legalized. 

I don't see an increase in use occurring if they were legal for adults.  The kids who would do drugs are already doing them.

What I'd see is a hell of a lot less kids with felony convictions hanging around their necks for the rest of their lives.

THIS.

[AFK]

Sorry, RWHN, I still think drugs should be completely legalized.

Everyone has the right to fuck themselves up in any way they choose.

This!

The fact that they are illegal is what makes most drugs interesting in the first place.

Not really, it's more the fact that parents don't want them to do it. Part of rebellion against parental authority.   I don't imagine that would change all that much if drugs were legalized. 

I don't see an increase in use occurring if they were legal for adults.  The kids who would do drugs are already doing them.

What I'd see is a hell of a lot less kids with felony convictions hanging around their necks for the rest of their lives.

How often does that happen vs. the number of kids who die from ODing?

[Doktor Howl]

Sorry, RWHN, I still think drugs should be completely legalized.

Everyone has the right to fuck themselves up in any way they choose.

This!

The fact that they are illegal is what makes most drugs interesting in the first place.

Not really, it's more the fact that parents don't want them to do it. Part of rebellion against parental authority.   I don't imagine that would change all that much if drugs were legalized. 

I don't see an increase in use occurring if they were legal for adults.  The kids who would do drugs are already doing them.

What I'd see is a hell of a lot less kids with felony convictions hanging around their necks for the rest of their lives.

How often does that happen vs. the number of kids who die from ODing?

Number of felony convictions vs the number of deaths in minors?

Hang on, I'll look.

[Doktor Howl]

Okay this is a bitch.  I keep getting 30 pages of lawyers websites.

Continuing.

[Doktor Howl]

Well, here we go:

Average deaths from drugs in 2008 (adult and juvenile):  17000...Counts only actual drug caused deaths.  For example, in 2006, the total number of drug related deaths was as follows:

"In 2006, a total of 38,396 persons died of drug-induced causes in the United States (Tables 21 and 22). This category includes not only deaths from dependent and nondependent use of legal or illegal drugs, but also poisoning from medically prescribed and other drugs. It excludes unintentional injuries, homicides, and other causes indirectly related to drug use, as well as newborn deaths due to the mother's drug use."

So for our purposes, 17,000 people TOTAL die nation wide, on average, each year from overdoses.

http://drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/30  Sources are cited at the website.

Now, convictions:

Just New York - just one state- had 2.5 times that number of felony drug violations.

There were 43,844 adult arrests in New York for felony drug violations during 2007.13 There were 42,265 such arrests during 2006.14

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/statelocal/ny/ny.pdf

I can keep digging, though it's a pain in the ass.  Strictly juvenile figures seem to be damn hard to find.  What percentage of that 17,000 do you expect are minors?

[AFK]

For it to be apples to apples however, we want to compare juvenile felony convictions and adolescent overdose deaths.  But I would also add to deaths OD's that don't result in death and other serious mental and medical conditions caused by drug use.  Because that is the trade-off. 

[Doktor Howl]

For it to be apples to apples however, we want to compare juvenile felony convictions and adolescent overdose deaths.  But I would also add to deaths OD's that don't result in death and other serious mental and medical conditions caused by drug use.  Because that is the trade-off. 

Okay, and I want to add misdemeanor convictions and trauma caused by having parents in prison for drugs.

I mean, if we're moving the goal posts.

[AFK]

I'm not moving the goal posts, but I should've included those in the previous post.  Because it isn't just about the kids who die, it's about the kids who get addicted and have their lives pretty much ruined because of the addiction.  And again, when it comes to kids, unless they are distributing and selling, the justice system should be set up as an intervention, not solely a vehicle for punishment.  That's why I say every state should have juvenile drug courts set up.  They've done wonders in my state by keeping kids out of jail and getting them the help they needed.  And when I say needed, I mean that after a scientifically and researched based assessment, they were found to have drug dependence or drug addiction. 

If a state is simply locking them up, they are doing it wrong.  The solution isn't to legalize the drugs, because you are igonring the larger cultural and environmental issue which is a community that obviously isn't conducive to getting kids help when they need it.  And when you legalize it you are sending a signal to the kids that you as a community don't care anymore whether or not they do drugs.  And if the state says its okay, you can be damn sure they are going to take that and run with it.  Why listen to your parents when the government is telling you it is okay?  When you are a teenager, parents are stupid.  They are uninformed.  You think they are smarter than they are.  And now, they would have the government on their side, in their perception.  No thanks.   

[P3nT4gR4m]

Okay now you're just being absurd - teenagers believe what the government tells them?

I'm getting the impression you weren't a very rebellious teenager. If I'm wrong in this assumption then I'm sorry - it's my impression is all - no insult intended. Just in case I'm right, let me put you in the picture, from someone who was pretty much a study in teenage rebellion. The golden rule = fuck authority. The bigger the authority the harder they need fucked. Government and coppers = infinitely bigger authority than teachers, with parents sliding in somewhere below them. If the government had passed a mandate when I was a teenager, decreeing that I absolutely had to drink and take drugs or I would be prosecuted and/or imprisoned and/or executed by lethal injection then, and only then, would I have refrained from taking all the booze and pills I could get my grubby little hands on.

[BadBeast]

Decriminalisation doesn't go far enough. It leaves distribution, and any import/export in the hands of Criminals. Not that I have anything particularly against Criminals,  (and to be fair, they have been quite efficient at it) but for the whole of society (UK,  Specifically)  to benefit from a major move like this, it needs to be Regulated, Quality assessed, and Taxed.

I'm certain that once people actually realize the massive
(and I really do mean massive) amounts of revenue and jobs that this would generate for our badly abused economy, then the public would be wholeheartedly behind such a move. Not only would it ease the burden of Taxes on the average non-smoking working man, but it would also redirect a similar sum that is currently (by necessity) either in the Black Economy, or going straight out of the Country, funding fuck knows what,  fuck knows where, back into the Economy proper.

So how can a responsible Government, who are purportedly  in control of the Economy, and supposedly taking measures to improve it's general health, allow such a lucrative Black Economy to go straight into the hands of Criminal Ganglords, without even having the Tax from it?
All of this could be up and running in less than a year. If Legalisation were to take place, then the only extra outlay for the Government, would be to employ a few extra Taxbods to count the mountains of cash that would be rolling in.

There are already efficient and well established lines of distribution and import set up. And many of the people who are currently involved in these lines, (and earning good money at it too) would jump at the chance to 'Go Legal', So the knock on effect would be much more lucrative for the general populace, than the "Trickle down" effect of giving the Banks handouts. It begins at the other end of the Economy for a start, so the real effects of the influx of money would be felt straight away, generating a confident rise in public spending. It would eventually 'Trickle up' to the Banks, but only after it had generated Small Businesses, Tax, and Jobs for people. Which is really the mandate of the  Banks & the Treasury , but they have proven to be too incompetant and greedy, and working so closely with each other, there is  too much room for abuse and collusion. So if we put the whole of this new industry between the Government and the Banks, the revenues generated can be directed into  something other than huge salary increases for 'The Boys on the Boards'.

As has already been said, the numbers of kids getting stoned would not be adversarily affected, as they are already smoking it, regardless of the Law. If anything, it would decrease thier numbers, as their suppliers would be driven out of business, or regulated. In fact, the whole thing need not affect the smoker at all, except in the pocket.

To summarise, I think we all must be missing some important factor, because Legalising Puff is such a win/win option, I find it unthinkable that the Government haven't already done so, decades ago. Therefore there must be some pretty heavy duty lobbying from Drug Companies, or Textile manafcturers, or The Church, or some other major player, that stands to lose a lot of money. And the only people that spring to mind, are the International Criminal Organisations who use the illegal status of drugs, and the subsequent industries of illegal import/export,  as their source of income. (Presumably along with this, comes some top level bribery, that we can do without)

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Decriminalisation is where you can have a certain amount without being arrested or having it confiscated. Its still technically illegal tho.

That was how it works in Holland anyway.

Same in Massaachusetts