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Tazing Granny

Started by Iason Ouabache, June 28, 2010, 07:28:35 PM

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Vene

Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.

Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press.  They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.

And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.

Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press.  They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.

And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.

Well, sure.  I know nothing of this subject matter, after all, and those old ladies are like fucking ninjas.
Molon Lube

Vene

Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 29, 2010, 12:11:01 AM
Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.

Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press.  They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.

And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.

Well, sure.  I know nothing of this subject matter, after all, and those old ladies are like fucking ninjas.
Not what I said, but you can tell yourself that.
(For the record, I received some training with knife fighting from a former US Army instructor, one of the things I learned is that when a knife is involved, there will always be blood spilled. I try not to underestimate weapons.)

Jasper

So, the lady actually wanted to die?

Maybe she was trying to provoke a "suicide by cop".

Someone should have told her that now cops have "nonlethal" weapons.

Doktor Howl

Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:15:17 AM

(For the record, I received some training with knife fighting from a former US Army instructor,

Oh, my.  Well, that certainly blows my experience out of the water.
Molon Lube

ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞

Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 28, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
What a load of crap.  10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?



They said, "'She took a more aggressive posture in her bed."

:lulz:
P E R   A S P E R A   A D   A S T R A

-Kel-


Cain

Quote from: Vene on June 29, 2010, 12:03:53 AM
Quote from: Cain on June 28, 2010, 11:30:02 PM
The problem I have with this "death threat" argument is that it relies on the testimony of cops who tasered an 86 year old woman, from a department which apparently has many issues when it comes to using tasers.

Of course, the police would never lie to justify their actions, especially when they start to look like real shitheads in the press.  They're too honourable.
See, that's something that is at least a source of reasonable doubt. Dishonesty on their part wouldn't be something unrealistic, but I have nothing to say that it is a lie. If it is false and she didn't have a knife, no question, the cops did wrong, but if she had a knife, I'm not sure what else they could have done.

And, Dok, it's a knife, it's fucking sharp, humans are squishy and weak, it doesn't take much to stab somebody. I don't doubt they could get it from her, I doubt that they could get it from her without anybody getting stabbed in the process.

80 year olds also have poor reflexes, sight and grip.  One cop could easily distract her while the other controls the weapon hand, applying enough force to cause her to drop it or, if she was unexpectedly strong, break the wrist.  Especially when she's in bed.

I mean, lets think about this.  In bed, you cant put weight behind a weapon, and your attack vectors are highly limited.  At the worst, she could likely inflict flesh wounds via slashing attacks and while that would spread a lot of blood around the place, it is hardly fatal.

And this is assuming she had a knife.  I remember only too well how the cops over here lied repeatedly when they capped a Brazilian guy on the subway because he might've been a terrorist.  They lied about the clothes he was wearing and his actions immediately before his death, spinning it to look like he acted suspiciously enough to allow a copper to empty a clip into his head.  Cops lie, and cover up, and distort, and one of the main reasons for doing such things is negative media attention due to acting like a thug.

Iason Ouabache

Quote from: Doktor Howl on June 28, 2010, 11:32:45 PM
What a load of crap.  10 cops couldn't handle an octogenarian lady, knife or no knife?


They did handle it. They tazed her.  :|
You cannot fathom the immensity of the fuck i do not give.
    \
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Vene

Quote from: Cain on June 29, 2010, 01:23:19 AM80 year olds also have poor reflexes, sight and grip.  One cop could easily distract her while the other controls the weapon hand, applying enough force to cause her to drop it or, if she was unexpectedly strong, break the wrist.  Especially when she's in bed.

I mean, lets think about this.  In bed, you cant put weight behind a weapon, and your attack vectors are highly limited.  At the worst, she could likely inflict flesh wounds via slashing attacks and while that would spread a lot of blood around the place, it is hardly fatal.
This is at least what I'm looking for, an actual method to disarm her. Although I admit I'm not sure if flesh wounds are an acceptable risk and I don't have much sympathy if somebody gets hurt after threatening another person. I'm also not sure if the effects of the taser are worse than a broken wrist.

QuoteAnd this is assuming she had a knife.  I remember only too well how the cops over here lied repeatedly when they capped a Brazilian guy on the subway because he might've been a terrorist.  They lied about the clothes he was wearing and his actions immediately before his death, spinning it to look like he acted suspiciously enough to allow a copper to empty a clip into his head.  Cops lie, and cover up, and distort, and one of the main reasons for doing such things is negative media attention due to acting like a thug.
Lying is a very real possibility, I can't discount it happening. I'm going to have to reserve judgment on that front for now.

Freeky

Hah hah. Haaaaaah hah       ha       hah.

NotPublished

oh my goodness!

How did she survive?

How come police were dispatched instead of medical? Unless 991 is police only?
In Soviet Russia, sins died for Jesus.

Freeky

911 relays to a dispatch center, and they will use their judgement to send someone out there. Or something.

Isn't Alty a dispatcher?

Jenne

Vene, sorry, but I call bullshit.  She's on oxygen.  She's obviously mentally and physically ill.  Speaking as a granddaughter to a recently-deceased mentally and physically ill 82 year old, I have to say that any cop who'd TASE that lady rather than "take her down" another way is a fucking pussy.

Yeah, I said it.

And if that shit happened in front of me or mine, MY blood'd be spilled and probably someone else's (like one of the jackoffs in the blue suits threatening a sick old woman), and I'd be in jail for it.  That shit should not fly.  EVER.

I don't care if she had a fucking granade.

Doktor Howl

But Vene got knife fighting training from a guy who used to be an army instructor.

Which is way more experience than I've ever had.

hnark!
Molon Lube