The chickenfarmer's lament

[Doktor Howl]

Good thing I'm The Man™ then.



But you know, it might be interesting to see the entire music industry turn into a side hobby, done only after you do your "real" job.

Yep.  Then we can all get used to hearing the same shit, over and over again, as new output is restricted to local markets (why would I spend money to promote something on a national level, if someone's just going to steal it?).

Let's hear it for crappy garage bands.  It's the future.

And you East coast spags will have to listen to ukelele-playing wannabe artistes until you puke.  And then some more.

[Payne]

(cramulus repeating himself warning)

So this piracy issue isn't going to go away, because

Of course it isn't.  The OP is trying to justify it, though, on a moral level.

If you're swiping it, so be it.  Just don't paint the artist as the bad guy, as Regret did.

Fucking THIS.

I myself am a thief. I don't pretend to be anything otherwise, when it comes to this.

I do draw the line at ripping off people close to me, however. I'm not sure I could say exactly why... All I can say is that there aren't going to be bootleg copies of MSY going around, or a whole bunch of LMNO's tracks being bandied around all over the place (without the respective artists permissions, at the very least). I like that "Root of All Evil" thing there, with the carpet bombing Baghdad - could make for an interesting discussion.

Any other aspect of this debate is (probably entrenched) opinion, unlikely to be changed and very likely to stir up a fight.

[Doktor Howl]

Also, I find the notion of a nation that has willfully done away with its professional artists to be fucking hilarious.  America deserves this shit.  So, apparently, does Europe.

[Doktor Howl]

Any other aspect of this debate is (probably entrenched) opinion, unlikely to be changed and very likely to stir up a fight.

Well, the OP was an obvious troll, but why the hell not?  It's a slow Thursday.

It's not like we haven't done this topic before.

[Payne]

Any other aspect of this debate is (probably entrenched) opinion, unlikely to be changed and very likely to stir up a fight.

Well, the OP was an obvious troll, but why the hell not?  It's a slow Thursday.

It's not like we haven't done this topic before.

Indeed, Dok. I'm only calling it as I see it, not passing The Judgement.

People who wanna justify their actions with Neo-Morality do deserve everything they get.

[Doktor Howl]

One other thing...The logical extension of this is that only the largest corporations will attempt to continue distribution, then only on "sure" winners.

Horrible screamo club music:  It's the future.  Forever.

[Doktor Howl]

Any other aspect of this debate is (probably entrenched) opinion, unlikely to be changed and very likely to stir up a fight.

Well, the OP was an obvious troll, but why the hell not?  It's a slow Thursday.

It's not like we haven't done this topic before.

Indeed, Dok. I'm only calling it as I see it, not passing The Judgement.

People who wanna justify their actions with Neo-Morality do deserve everything they get.

Well, I particularly like this argument:

1. producers need to adapt to the times because
2. piracy isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start selling things that can't be pirated

Which I run through the reducto ad absurdum machine, giving us:

1. Potential rape victims need to adapt to the times because
2. Rape isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start sewing your orifices shut.

[Payne]

Well, I particularly like this argument:

1. producers need to adapt to the times because
2. piracy isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start selling things that can't be pirated

Which I run through the reducto ad absurdum machine, giving us:

1. Potential rape victims need to adapt to the times because
2. Rape isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start sewing your orifices shut.

...Unless you're friends, of course.

[Elder Iptuous]

Dok,

I don't know the numbers off hand, but i believe that a sizable percentage of the music that is personally held and listened to is pirated these days.
This has been an increasing trend over the past couple decades, right?

In your estimation, has the quality and quantity of music available to the average person declined over this period?

I'm not weighing in on the subject here, but for disclosure, i should say that i haven't payed for music beyond a few CDs from my favorite bands (where i'm essentially just buying the insert and donating to them) for about 15 years...
I'm just wondering if what you say would be born out by the destruction of IP integrity has actually occurred with this transition...

[AFK]

I keep making this point that keeps getting ignored.  

That artist that you like.  You want them to make more than one album, right?

If you don't sell records, you don't have money to make new albums.  

Do the record labels suck?  Do they stick it to the artists?  Well, yeah, of course they do.  

Artists know that going into the deal.  It's like we know what we are getting into by continuing to live in America, yet we still do, right?  

Artists are working with the animal they have.  

And so to "help" you want to make it harder for them to make their art?  

Because if the record labels don't see the money coming in from album #1, they are NOT going to put up the money for album #2.

and then this artist you supposedly love and support is shit out of luck, and you have to find a new band to be into.  

You guys are spending your money on all the technobling to pirate and play the music and you can't shell out the fucking Hamilton and Lincoln for the album?  

[Cramulus]

Well, I particularly like this argument:

1. producers need to adapt to the times because
2. piracy isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start selling things that can't be pirated

Which I run through the reducto ad absurdum machine, giving us:

1. Potential rape victims need to adapt to the times because
2. Rape isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start sewing your orifices shut.

So then what should record / movie companies be doing?

It sounds like you're saying they should just keep doing what they're doing, and the public should just stop stealing.


Maybe if we all just start acting rationally on the count of three....

[AFK]

Dok,

I don't know the numbers off hand, but i believe that a sizable percentage of the music that is personally held and listened to is pirated these days.
This has been an increasing trend over the past couple decades, right?

In your estimation, has the quality and quantity of music available to the average person declined over this period?

I'm not weighing in on the subject here, but for disclosure, i should say that i haven't payed for music beyond a few CDs from my favorite bands (where i'm essentially just buying the insert and donating to them) for about 15 years...
I'm just wondering if what you say would be born out by the destruction of IP integrity has actually occurred with this transition...

Yes, it is pretty well known that album sales have gone down across the music industry.  Bands on the fringe that could've survived a decade or so ago are being dropped like their on fire by lablels.  A favorite band of mine Anathema, were without a record label for the better part of 5 years, because of poor album sales.  Perhaps if all the pirates had bought their albums instead of stealing them, their latest album would've been put out 3 years ago when it was written instead of now.  

[AFK]

Well, I particularly like this argument:

1. producers need to adapt to the times because
2. piracy isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start selling things that can't be pirated

Which I run through the reducto ad absurdum machine, giving us:

1. Potential rape victims need to adapt to the times because
2. Rape isn't going away
3. in order to adapt, start sewing your orifices shut.

So then what should record / movie companies be doing?

It sounds like you're saying they should just keep doing what they're doing, and the public should just stop stealing.


Maybe if we all just start acting rationally on the count of three....

The problem is you can't screw the record label without screwing the artist as well.  And if you are screwing the artist you aren't making things better. 

[Cramulus]

I want to draw a distinction between the two conversations going on right now

1. is about the moralty of piracy
2. is about how producers and consumers can both get their needs met


I'm really only interested in talking about #2. I understand that piracy is a type of theft. But larger scale piracy can't be ended by moralizing at pirates, they (collectively) don't care.

I mean maybe you can stop people on this board from pirating music if you make a strong enough case, but I think it's mostly beating a dead horse.

We can talk about how the production companies might construct a better model to address people's real spending habits. We can talk about other ways for artists to make a buck off their creativity. We can talk about how creative industries have to adapt to an economy where the trade of digital info is free. But I don't think we're going to emerge with anything productive if we get hung up on PIRACY BAD. YES/NO?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

THE CURRENT SYSTEM IS BROKEN. Bottom line. Talking about right and wrong won't fix it, any more than it will restore the Americas to the natives.

What is the solution?

There is one reason, and one reason only, that I am able to support myself on beads, and that is the internet and its amazing opportunity to allow me to represent myself. In the past, beadmakers had to either hire reps to market their work, or they had to do the show circuit; out of the question for someone with young children. The very same technology which has made it harder for artists to survive under the current label sponsorship/distribution model has also made it possible for countless other artists to survive and thrive as SRA... Self Representing Artists. This is a huge movement, and growing rapidly. I know musicians who are thriving under this model... they really have no choice, as labels won't give them a second listen. It's not easy, and it requires learning business as well as music, but it works.

For now.