Prop 8 Watch. Grab your popcorn, kids!

[Doktor Howl]

What I've been hearing is the likely outcome of a federal suit will be that the courts rule its not in federal jurisdiction.  Not so much because of actual constitutional issues but because there is a possibility of a nationwide ammendment to ban gay marriage if the courts rule otherwise.

If the ninth rules as such, or in concurrence with the current ruling, SCOTUS will probably refuse to hear the case altogether.

I was wondering how it'd dance around the whole "states rights" issue.

Um, article VI states that the constitution (in this case, amendment XIV) trumps states' rights.

[Aucoq]

States rights aren't relevant in a question of whether or not an action is constitutional, see the 14th ammendment.

Um, article VI states that the constitution (in this case, amendment XIV) trumps states' rights.

I was referring to how it'd cause an uproar if it went to a federal court or the SCOTUS (upsetting/enraging the people who believe states, not the federal government, should determine things like rights for homosexuals).  I wasn't trying to suggest that states rights could trump the constitution.  I apologize for not clarifying, or better fleshing out, my previous post.  That was my fault.  My last post was horribly written.

[Doktor Howl]

I was referring to how it'd cause an uproar if it went to a federal court or the SCOTUS (upsetting/enraging the people who believe states, not the federal government, should determine things like rights for homosexuals).

Every major establishment of rights for minorities has been through federal action. 

Each and every one.

The bigots can lump it, just like they did in Loving vs Virginia.

[Adios]

I was referring to how it'd cause an uproar if it went to a federal court or the SCOTUS (upsetting/enraging the people who believe states, not the federal government, should determine things like rights for homosexuals).

Every major establishment of rights for minorities has been through federal action. 

Each and every one.

The bigots can lump it, just like they did in Loving vs Virginia.

The world is fucked which ever way it goes.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

What I've been hearing is the likely outcome of a federal suit will be that the courts rule its not in federal jurisdiction.  Not so much because of actual constitutional issues but because there is a possibility of a nationwide ammendment to ban gay marriage if the courts rule otherwise.

If the ninth rules as such, or in concurrence with the current ruling, SCOTUS will probably refuse to hear the case altogether.

I was wondering how it'd dance around the whole "states rights" issue.

Um, article VI states that the constitution (in this case, amendment XIV) trumps states' rights.

DoMA might be a snag in that though, unless that is also repealed. But at the very least, if the Federal Government ends up recognizing same sex marriage, they'll get Federal marriage protections too, regardless of what other states do.

[DiscoUkulele]

Hey, you know what'd be awesome?? If our President and "fierce advocate" for the LGBT crowd would release a statement that isn't totally half-assed and uninspired.


Oh wait. His DOJ loves the motherfucking SHIT out of DOMA and DADT. So nevermind.

Fuckin hell. I literally cried on election night because I really thought we finally had an ally in the white house. Fuckin load of shit that's turned out to be.

Edit: Hold on, imma finish my drunk rant before I go crash. So, if you haven't been following gay news, during the election, Obama was all "OMG I FUKKIN LOVE GAYS LOL!" and a lot of us believed him. And he said he was against DOMA and DADT and supported civil unions.

But then he won the election. And there was a challenge to DOMA, but his DOJ defended it. And Obama was all "LOL GUYS I HAVE TO DEFEND IT COS I'M PREZ IT'S MY JOB TO DEFEND CURRENT LAWZ!". And then during his state of of union address, he said DADT will be repealed by the end of the year- and hey! It's August and no one has done SHIT on DADT. And then Obama pushed for Congress to agree to wait for the pentagon to finish their "OMG would homos in the military make you fear for the safety of your rectum???" survey, which could take years. And there's been several high profile gay discharges since he's been president.

THEN, the gay community was all "WTF? why did we waste our gay dollars on you?" and shit, so Obama was like "OMG LOLZ! SORRY!" and thought it'd patch things up if he offered benefits to same-sex partners of federal emplotees in a big public masturbatory ceremony. But when he signed that into effect, there weren't really any details of WHAT exactly these partners were gonna be getting, he just wanted to show teh gays that he was doing something for them. So then, when it came time to figure out what exactly the government could give same-sex partners of gov employees, everyone suddenly realized "OH FUCK! WE CAN'T DO SHIT BECAUSE DOMA! *FACEPALM*"

Right back to fucking DOMA. Motherfucking OUROBOROS, ya'll. Which Obama said he was against, but then defended anyways.



And now the 2010 elections are coming up, and Obama will surely whip out his I LOVE THE GAYS cock all up in the media and shit, hoping he can win the gays over for another election cycle. But fuck that shit. His DOJ practically called us faggots in their DOMA statement. So fuck that shit. Obama can eat a bag of dicks.

After he was elected, he didn't say SHIT about Prop 8 passing. And then he had Rick Warren (huuuge ass supporter of prop 8 ) lead his swearing-in prayer. He tried to toss the homos a bone by having gay episcopal bishop Gene Robinson give a prayer at another ceremony (which couldn't be televised- LOL SORRY GUYS!).

And now, on this historic day that Prop 8 has been struck down (for now), he can't even release a motherfucking substantial statement on the issue. The white house statement was incredibly lame, and incredibly shallow, and didn't state Obama's position at all.

So ya, Obama can talk a nice game in order to get the gays support during election, but it's pretty clear he couldn't give a flying fuck about us. So fuck that shit.

Ima pass out now, and try to not let him ruin today for me.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Hey, you know what'd be awesome?? If our President and "fierce advocate" for the LGBT crowd would release a statement that isn't totally half-assed and uninspired.


Oh wait. His DOJ loves the motherfucking SHIT out of DOMA and DADT. So nevermind.

Fuckin hell. I literally cried on election night because I really thought we finally had an ally in the white house. Fuckin load of shit that's turned out to be.

It's the political game. You say one thing but don't do anything. If you do anything, you piss someone off and they don't vote for you again.

[Adios]

Hey, you know what'd be awesome?? If our President and "fierce advocate" for the LGBT crowd would release a statement that isn't totally half-assed and uninspired.


Oh wait. His DOJ loves the motherfucking SHIT out of DOMA and DADT. So nevermind.

Fuckin hell. I literally cried on election night because I really thought we finally had an ally in the white house. Fuckin load of shit that's turned out to be.

Edit: Hold on, imma finish my drunk rant before I go crash. So, if you haven't been following gay news, during the election, Obama was all "OMG I FUKKIN LOVE GAYS LOL!" and a lot of us believed him. And he said he was against DOMA and DADT and supported civil unions.

But then he won the election. And there was a challenge to DOMA, but his DOJ defended it. And Obama was all "LOL GUYS I HAVE TO DEFEND IT COS I'M PREZ IT'S MY JOB TO DEFEND CURRENT LAWZ!". And then during his state of of union address, he said DADT will be repealed by the end of the year- and hey! It's August and no one has done SHIT on DADT. And then Obama pushed for Congress to agree to wait for the pentagon to finish their "OMG would homos in the military make you fear for the safety of your rectum???" survey, which could take years. And there's been several high profile gay discharges since he's been president.

THEN, the gay community was all "WTF? why did we waste our gay dollars on you?" and shit, so Obama was like "OMG LOLZ! SORRY!" and thought it'd patch things up if he offered benefits to same-sex partners of federal emplotees in a big public masturbatory ceremony. But when he signed that into effect, there weren't really any details of WHAT exactly these partners were gonna be getting, he just wanted to show teh gays that he was doing something for them. So then, when it came time to figure out what exactly the government could give same-sex partners of gov employees, everyone suddenly realized "OH FUCK! WE CAN'T DO SHIT BECAUSE DOMA! *FACEPALM*"

Right back to fucking DOMA. Motherfucking OUROBOROS, ya'll. Which Obama said he was against, but then defended anyways.



And now the 2010 elections are coming up, and Obama will surely whip out his I LOVE THE GAYS cock all up in the media and shit, hoping he can win the gays over for another election cycle. But fuck that shit. His DOJ practically called us faggots in their DOMA statement. So fuck that shit. Obama can eat a bag of dicks.

After he was elected, he didn't say SHIT about Prop 8 passing. And then he had Rick Warren (huuuge ass supporter of prop 8 ) lead his swearing-in prayer. He tried to toss the homos a bone by having gay episcopal bishop Gene Robinson give a prayer at another ceremony (which couldn't be televised- LOL SORRY GUYS!).

And now, on this historic day that Prop 8 has been struck down (for now), he can't even release a motherfucking substantial statement on the issue. The white house statement was incredibly lame, and incredibly shallow, and didn't state Obama's position at all.

So ya, Obama can talk a nice game in order to get the gays support during election, but it's pretty clear he couldn't give a flying fuck about us. So fuck that shit.

Ima pass out now, and try to not let him ruin today for me.

That was one helluva rant!

[Cramulus]

entire rant

[Cain]

Obama and the Democrats will keep mindlessly screwing over the LBGT crowd so long as they slavishly donate dollars to their campaigns.  Lets put it this way, if I could depend on your continued support while not having to actually do a thing to help you, including things which would go down very badly with opposition party supporters at a time when the party is split due to infighting and ideological collapse (and thus in some cases willing to hear out centrist Democrats and even support them), then I wouldn't do a thing either.

[DiscoUkulele]

Obama and the Democrats will keep mindlessly screwing over the LBGT crowd so long as they slavishly donate dollars to their campaigns.  Lets put it this way, if I could depend on your continued support while not having to actually do a thing to help you, including things which would go down very badly with opposition party supporters at a time when the party is split due to infighting and ideological collapse (and thus in some cases willing to hear out centrist Democrats and even support them), then I wouldn't do a thing either.

Yeah. And they've got us in a really crappy situation that pretty much guarantees our votes. Do we vote for Republicans, who flat-out say they're going to attack us, or do we vote for the Democrats, who may or may not?

Sure, there's 3rd parties. But unfortunately, it's a bit like throwing your vote away. And by not voting Democrat, you're often risking letting an explicitly anti-gay candidate win.

So the Democrats know they've got us. What are we gonna do? Of course we'll vote for them, and then they won't have to do a thing for us.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Damn dude, wish I caught the edits before I went to bed. That was fantastic in its ire.

As far as the problem of who to vote for, perhaps you could inject the idea into the gay community of not supporting Obama in the next Dem primaries, and making it known that a voting bloc within the Democratic party is forming for that particular reason. Support him if he wins the primary because he has to beat the Republican candidate but it sends a message that he has to live up to what he promises a significant group of Americans that have been shitted on for too long.

Might have the added benefit of fracturing the GOP even more if they try to scramble for the gay vote.

[Cain]

Don't vote for them.  Self-harming is a powerful signal that you shouldn't be messed with, in certain circumstances.  Get a few major LGBT organizations to boycott a couple of elections - no votes, no money, no activism at all - and they'll start to suffer enough from it to want to woo your vote back.  If the GOP weren't currently made up of Christian Taliban impersonators, they'd probably also take advantage of a major bloc expressing disapproval with their own party, but they are, so it wont happen.

Also keep in mind, the Dems may be purposefully keeping the LGBT in limbo precisely to have their vote for all eternity while promising some reform at some point, maybe.  I mean, once they give the community everything it demands, then there is no further reason to vote for them, except vague social expectation.  Lots of gay couples have way more disposable income than straight couples (no kids) and so may prefer to vote for libertarian Republicans, for example, for the lower taxes.  By never actually carrying out their promises, they are tying up votes for themselves for another generation, at least.

Note: this is politics as it is actually played, without reference to morality or any form of ethical consideration.  Its about power, baby, and that means you have to use the fear of loss of power to get what you want.

[Adios]

Don't vote for them.  Self-harming is a powerful signal that you shouldn't be messed with, in certain circumstances.  Get a few major LGBT organizations to boycott a couple of elections - no votes, no money, no activism at all - and they'll start to suffer enough from it to want to woo your vote back.  If the GOP weren't currently made up of Christian Taliban impersonators, they'd probably also take advantage of a major bloc expressing disapproval with their own party, but they are, so it wont happen.

Also keep in mind, the Dems may be purposefully keeping the LGBT in limbo precisely to have their vote for all eternity while promising some reform at some point, maybe.  I mean, once they give the community everything it demands, then there is no further reason to vote for them, except vague social expectation.  Lots of gay couples have way more disposable income than straight couples (no kids) and so may prefer to vote for libertarian Republicans, for example, for the lower taxes.  By never actually carrying out their promises, they are tying up votes for themselves for another generation, at least.

Note: this is politics as it is actually played, without reference to morality or any form of ethical consideration.  Its about power, baby, and that means you have to use the fear of loss of power to get what you want.

Consider that if you want to have a lasting effect on the national you may need to focus on a grassroot effort on all local levels.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Cain's got a good point.
Another interesting thing you could do is try to get Steve Gunderson to run for President. Not only is he a Republican, but he's gay himself. He won't win, most likely, but if he seems a strong enough candidate, or that his running will definitely lose the Dems their gay vote, possibly for a very long time, to the Republicans, it will light a firecracker in their ass.


Or if you're going to boycott anyway, perhaps you can throw extra power into a third party.