Psychedelics question

[Doktor Howl]

Yeah, I see.  Sorry, I'm just being particular about this because this thread started with a real person (who I'm assuming is fairly young) expressing a real interest in experimenting with drugs and I want to make sure he clearly understands the possible implications of the choice he may or may not make. 

You may have noticed my posts, doing the very same thing, though with different rationalles.

I really don't want people driving up the price of cactus.   

On a serious note, I do notice a difference between pre-cactus and post-cactus me.  I'm not particularly partial to either condition, though, but - as I said - I am an unpleasant person either way.  The side effects don't particularly bother me, but they might bother the hell out of someone who wasn't a total fuckwit to begin with.

[trippinprincezz13]

What can I say, hallucinogens and MDMA are fun.

No.  They're daytime TV for the brain. 

Well, maybe I should have said can be fun, though it still effectively has the same meaning. I wouldn't advocate for their regular, habitual use, or your brain will go all mushy. I'm not one for daytime TV, or most of nighttime TV for that matter, but sometimes some stupid silly fun is just what my brain needs. It shouldn't NEED any kind of drug for that, but once or twice a year, that might be an avenue I choose to take. Maybe I'm too wound up to let the Fun come naturally - more often than not, except with a very small handful of people, and even that varies, I am plagued by anxiety and self-doubt/self-consciousness that puts a halt to the Fun in my mind the moment I get an inkling, imagined or not, that someone is noticing me, up to the point of inducing awful panic attacks.

A personal problem, no doubt, but if every so often I can let my ego go, maybe forget reality, or look at it from a different few for a few hours, it helps my mind to unwind. Not saying even that *I* need drugs to have fun, far from it, I just like doing it sometimes to have a slightly altered look at the things around me.

Didn't real mean for this to go into a spinoff about "Drugs are good cuz they help me not have anxiety hurrr", which is not how I am recommending them - just a side benefit that I personally, enjoy as I am not one to let go of my inhibitions very easily.

[trippinprincezz13]

This was going to be at the end of my last block of verbal diarrhea, but I decided to separate it because I *think* they hit on slightly different points, the following being more close in line with what I was originally saying:

I'll likely get shit all over for this post, but I suppose I'll leave it, after all I need to learn to stop caring what everyone thinks, right?! So, in conclusion, after spewing that out of my brain, what I believe I meant earlier when I said "hallucinogens and mdma are fun" is that they can be a supplement to fun. I personally wouldn't find taking either by yourself and sitting at home staring at the ceiling very fun. But, out by the beach, surrounded by thousands of other people, listening to music and playing games (a lot of which I did and enjoyed without the use of drugs FWIW) they can be that little extra that can add to the enjoyment of the experience, but aren't necessary to it.

[BabylonHoruv]

One of my godmothers has Dissociative disorder (used to be called Multiple Personality Disorder) She will have blackouts where another personality takes over and does really bad things, like hitchhiking across Canada.  She attributes this to LSD usage when she was younger and some of the psychiatrists she has consulted do as well, but not all of them.

I have not heard any anecdotal evidence that shrooms or MDMA cause any psychoses, or seen any studies to that effect, that doesn't mean they don't exist.  MDMA does cause minor brain damage (in other words, don't become a regular user, but occasional use should be fine) and also suppresses the desire to drink, while dehydrating you, so make sure to make a conscious effort to stay hydrated if you choose to go that way.  MDMA was not a psychedelic in my personal experience, LSD and Shrooms gave effects that could be considered to be in the same family, while MDMA did not, it's action was more intensely euphoric.

[BabylonHoruv]

Well I know the onset of use of alcohol, marijuana, and Rx drugs has been going down amongst school-age children in my state.  My suspicion, though I don't have the stats off-hand, is that this is a nation-wide trend. 

Meanwhile, it looks like the onset of use for inhalants is actually starting to inch up, which is really troubling and bizarre.  Inhalants have mostly been the drug of choice for young, middle-school aged kids.  Probably linked to the economy and ease of access. 

Onset of inhalants rising strikes me as a good thing.  Inhalants cause pretty serious brain damage if used regularly and I'd categorize them as more destructive than quite a few illegal drugs, although not anywhere near as addictive.  (you mean onset age right?  If you mean that kids are using less pot, alcohol and RX drugs and more inhalants, yeah, that sounds like bad news)

[AFK]

No, it's not good news because the increase in the onset of use isn't from fewer young kids doing inhalants, it's from more older kids doing inhalants, which is making the average age of onset go up. 

[BabylonHoruv]

Huge thanks to everyone for the information. I know I can control myself really well, so addiction is not a problem. I'm pretty much the strongest-willed person I know. Thanks Dr. Vrtig0 for the time spent on writing the whole thing and I'll deffinetly take it into consideration if I try shrooms or LSD. Probably I won't try LSD tough, and only shrooms. I don't plan on tripping often and I only want to try it to know the experience.

Also I don't really get people who say it's a really spiritual experience and shit. A chemical goes into you and changes what you percieve and how you think. What's so spiritual about it? My experiences with weed have only hardened my belief that what I call "me" is just a bunch of chemicals and electrical impulses.

Drugs are not  spiritual experience in and of themselves.  However they can greatly intensify a spiritual experience if used properly.  Shrooms are great for this.  You don't sound as if you are interested in spirituality in the first place though, so I am not going to bother going on about how to best use them in a spiritual way.

[BabylonHoruv]

No, it's not good news because the increase in the onset of use isn't from fewer young kids doing inhalants, it's from more older kids doing inhalants, which is making the average age of onset go up. 

Ahh.  I just read it as kids are waiting longer to start doing them, which would be a good thing.

[Doktor Howl]

A drunk, and acid head, and "Bob" were trying to get into The City, after the gates were closed for the night.  The drunk said "I'm going to lay down here and sleep until they open the gates".  The acid freak said "I'm going to try to float through the key hole.".  "Bob" went around back to where they take the garbage out, and got in for free.

- From The Book of the Subgenius.

[BadBeast]

I've quit doing everything I wanted to quit doing so I don't think I'll get addicted from experimenting.

When, long ago, I found myself in Re-hab, most of the other Patrons, were in for Heroin addiction. We worked in groups of about 12 to 15, with 3 group sessions a day, every day for seven weeks. The one thing that all of the heroin addicts had in common, bar none, is the sentiment you state above you. "I'll be fine, I hardly use it at all, anyway and I don't have a particularly addictive nature". This is not for any drug in particular, when it's first said, but applys to anything. Every single Heroin Addict has used this tired, but eminently relevant lie, to themselves. If this were true, then why don't you ever see anyone who is just an occaisional Heroin user?  What makes each and every one of them, in spite of the evidence all around them, in spite of everything that they think they know, what is it that makes them all think that they are the special and different one, that they are that rare and lucky man, who can keep a healthy grip on the Beast? As if it was a housetrained dog. It's not a dog. It's a fucking Dragon.

The fucking Dragon. You don't ride it, you chase it. You chase it and chase it, and by the time you think you've caught it, you realise that it's been the other way round. But by then, it's too late. It no longer matters. Nothing matters. Nothing, that is, except your new lover. The only one who knows how to love you properly. How to love you wholly. The one who is always there for you, to make the world go away when it gets too much. It covers you both in a bubble of protective, impenetrable love.
Nothing will ever get in to hurt you, not here. Not ever. This is your special place. Where you commune with your God. And She tells you no lies, She loves you.This mighty Dragon Goddess Lover of yours. She loves you. You.
This, you know. Never harsh, never judgemental. Never argumentative. All She wants is you. All of you. Every little bit of you. More and more each day. And you want Her. You NEED Her. Every moment you spend apart, becomes unbearable. She fills your being with need, with want, with Love. She is your everything. Your Perfect Day. Your Brown Sugar, Golden Brown, you realise she has had so many other Lovers before you. So very many. Yet she still has everything to give to you. Her Love. Your need to have her near to you for always, over rides everything. Food, Family, Friends, a home, other people. Anything else. All you need is Her. She fulfills you. Consumes you. Nurtures you with her pure Loving touch.

She heals all the pain and hurt the World throws at you. Never abandons you. Never threatens to leave you. But she is a Jealous Lover. And the pain she feels if you try to walk away from her, becomes your pain too.
Her abscence is a bottomless pit of pain, anguish, grief, and misery. Made all the worse, because you know it could all be washed away, and forgiven, if you just had a tiny, tiny last hit of Her. One touch of her warm fingers in your brain, will make all the pain just go away. Again.

She is needy, she is greedy, she has such huge abandonement issues, rejection is only ever partial with Her. She knows you won't stay away for long. In fact She's waiting for you now, with open arms. Forgiving, full of all that Love. She will wait forever for you. She loves you. You know you still love her too. Even after all this time. Nearly 30 years since you saw her last. But you still feel her within you. Still love her. It's never too late with Her.

This kind of thing is why you really shouldn't get into Heroin. If you are Her type, then all other Drugs will eventually lead you to Her. There is no question about this. She will have you. All you have to do, to show willing is Chase that Dragon a couple of times. What harm can it do? It's just a ride. 

[Doktor Howl]

BB is on a roll today. 

[Disco Pickle]

When, long ago, I found myself in Re-hab, most of the other Patrons, were in for Heroin addiction. We worked in groups of about 12 to 15, with 3 group sessions a day, every day for seven weeks. The one thing that all of the heroin addicts had in common, bar none, is the sentiment you state above you. "I'll be fine, I hardly use it at all, anyway and I don't have a particularly addictive nature". This is not for any drug in particular, when it's first said, but applys to anything. Every single Heroin Addict has used this tired, but eminently relevant lie, to themselves. If this were true, then why don't you ever see anyone who is just an occaisional Heroin user?  What makes each and every one of them, in spite of the evidence all around them, in spite of everything that they think they know, what is it that makes them all think that they are the special and different one, that they are that rare and lucky man, who can keep a healthy grip on the Beast? As if it was a housetrained dog. It's not a dog. It's a fucking Dragon.

The fucking Dragon. You don't ride it, you chase it. You chase it and chase it, and by the time you think you've caught it, you realise that it's been the other way round. But by then, it's too late. It no longer matters. Nothing matters. Nothing, that is, except your new lover. The only one who knows how to love you properly. How to love you wholly. The one who is always there for you, to make the world go away when it gets too much. It covers you both in a bubble of protective, impenetrable love.
Nothing will ever get in to hurt you, not here. Not ever. This is your special place. Where you commune with your God. And She tells you no lies, She loves you.This mighty Dragon Goddess Lover of yours. She loves you. You.
This, you know. Never harsh, never judgemental. Never argumentative. All She wants is you. All of you. Every little bit of you. More and more each day. And you want Her. You NEED Her. Every moment you spend apart, becomes unbearable. She fills your being with need, with want, with Love. She is your everything. Your Perfect Day. Your Brown Sugar, Golden Brown, you realise she has had so many other Lovers before you. So very many. Yet she still has everything to give to you. Her Love. Your need to have her near to you for always, over rides everything. Food, Family, Friends, a home, other people. Anything else. All you need is Her. She fulfills you. Consumes you. Nurtures you with her pure Loving touch.

She heals all the pain and hurt the World throws at you. Never abandons you. Never threatens to leave you. But she is a Jealous Lover. And the pain she feels if you try to walk away from her, becomes your pain too.
Her abscence is a bottomless pit of pain, anguish, grief, and misery. Made all the worse, because you know it could all be washed away, and forgiven, if you just had a tiny, tiny last hit of Her. One touch of her warm fingers in your brain, will make all the pain just go away. Again.

She is needy, she is greedy, she has such huge abandonement issues, rejection is only ever partial with Her. She knows you won't stay away for long. In fact She's waiting for you now, with open arms. Forgiving, full of all that Love. She will wait forever for you. She loves you. You know you still love her too. Even after all this time. Nearly 30 years since you saw her last. But you still feel her within you. Still love her. It's never too late with Her.

This kind of thing is why you really shouldn't get into Heroin. If you are Her type, then all other Drugs will eventually lead you to Her. There is no question about this. She will have you. All you have to do, to show willing is Chase that Dragon a couple of times. What harm can it do? It's just a ride.

Heroin scares the holy fuck out of me, and I'll never get near the stuff.
besides the fact that you cant get near me with a needle without me ripping out your tongue..  which makes for interesting doctors office visits. 

For my doctor.

[BadBeast]

Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.

Sorry, this is not accurate.  Significant brain damage can occur through drug addiction that is never completely recovered.  This is especially true when drug use starts in the crucial developmental years of adolescence.  Again, this is why the later you wait to start using drugs the "better".  There are certain brain functions that once you lose them or severely diminish their capacities, you won't get them back.  

Heroin causes no Brain damage, no toxic build up, no nasty residues, it's totally organic, it's virtually the same stuff as your own endorphins. In fact, it's more compatible for you than your own endorphins. If it is introduced to your system, you no longer produce endorphins. Heroin is the superior Motorcycle. The real thing. The Panacea. It does no more harm to your body than the good clean air you breath. This is true.

[Doktor Howl]

Addicted brains can recover, depending on the substance, and return to normal before addiction function but the potential for relapse is much more heightened once an addiction has been established.

Sorry, this is not accurate.  Significant brain damage can occur through drug addiction that is never completely recovered.  This is especially true when drug use starts in the crucial developmental years of adolescence.  Again, this is why the later you wait to start using drugs the "better".  There are certain brain functions that once you lose them or severely diminish their capacities, you won't get them back.  

Heroin causes no Brain damage, no toxic build up, no nasty residues, it's totally organic, it's virtually the same stuff as your own endorphins. In fact, it's more compatible for you than your own endorphins. If it is introduced to your system, you no longer produce endorphins. Heroin is the superior Motorcycle. The real thing. The Panacea. It does no more harm to your body than the good clean air you breath. This is true.

Yeah, but then you stop caring about anything else, and eventually fall to pieces through self-neglect.

[BadBeast]

Heroin scares the holy fuck out of me, and I'll never get near the stuff.
besides the fact that you cant get near me with a needle without me ripping out your tongue..  which makes for interesting doctors office visits.  

For my doctor.
[/quote]These things you say here, these are also things every addict has said. And meant. By the time you get around to needing a needle, The fear you had will be as nothing, to your need for Heroin. You will effectively remove fear from your life. She will take care of everything like that for you. For as long as you want. And then some.