The "WTC Mosque" hysteria, in a nutshell

[Cain]

Glenn Beck's online college thing teaches history, doesn't it?  I'd love to see a team of academic historians take that apart, piece by piece.

I haven't seen anyone covering the history classes but Chris Rodda has done a good job of taking apart David Barton's Faith classes from Beck U and a bunch of other claims that Beck has made about the religion of the founding fathers:

http://www.talk2action.org/user/Chris%20Rodda

Since Beck cannot even be consistent in his own beliefs (see: the Daily Show, Beck condemning the founder of Cordoba House for something he himself said 3 months previous) it is not hard to believe he struggles with the beliefs of others

[Cain]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/07/cordoba_house_p.php

In Manhattan, only 36 percent of voters oppose the mosque, while 73 percent do in Staten Island. Queens (52 percent opposed), Brooklyn (57 percent) and the Bronx (57 percent) fall in between. There's also a big split between Democratic (45 percent) and Republican (82 percent) levels of opposition.

Fuck this country, fuck it in the ass.

I find that so hard to believe. What with Democrats generally cheering on the bombing of Muslim civilians and occupation of Muslim countries, not to mention massive support for Israel (much more so than the GOP, which has far more established strains of anti-Semitism still present) that there would be any kind of residual resentment or antipathy towards Muslims within the party. 

Muslims are basically easier to pick on than blacks, less politically self-defeating than Latinos and with less nasty historical precedent than Jews.

[Cain]

Glenn Beck's online college thing teaches history, doesn't it?  I'd love to see a team of academic historians take that apart, piece by piece.

Apparently he teaches Faith 101, Hope 101, and Charity 101.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/42502/

Beck University is a unique academic experience bringing together experts in the fields of religion, American history and economics. Through captivating lectures and interactive online discussions, these experts will explore the concepts of Faith, Hope and Charity and show you how they influence America's past, her present and most importantly her future.

Why do I get the feeling that when this was written, 'Pomp and Circumstance' was playing in the background?

Well, "pomp" was part of the word I was thinking of when reading this...the rest being "ous fart"

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/3890/



Yay! Cartoons! :P

[Cramulus]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/07/cordoba_house_p.php

In Manhattan, only 36 percent of voters oppose the mosque, while 73 percent do in Staten Island. Queens (52 percent opposed), Brooklyn (57 percent) and the Bronx (57 percent) fall in between. There's also a big split between Democratic (45 percent) and Republican (82 percent) levels of opposition.

Fuck this country, fuck it in the ass.

I find that so hard to believe. What with Democrats generally cheering on the bombing of Muslim civilians and occupation of Muslim countries, not to mention massive support for Israel (much more so than the GOP, which has far more established strains of anti-Semitism still present) that there would be any kind of residual resentment or antipathy towards Muslims within the party. 

Muslims are basically easier to pick on than blacks, less politically self-defeating than Latinos and with less nasty historical precedent than Jews.

IT JUST GOES TO SHOW

that bigotry transcends party lines


I was VERY surprised that my incredibly liberal brooklynite friend said that he'd relax about the mosque as soon as the mid-east was one giant asphalt parking lot.

I forget sometimes how emotional of an issue 9/11 is, and how for some people, it presses the TERRITORY DEFENSE button really really hard. And these people have not been silent over the last 9 years, they've been gathering support and concentrating their efforts.

Gov. Patterson says this is all very calculated. He believes it to be a right wing attempt to polarize voters- to get liberal voters to resonate with right wing talking points. Patterson thinks this will all go away in November. I tell you this, my fingers are crossed.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2010/07/cordoba_house_p.php

In Manhattan, only 36 percent of voters oppose the mosque, while 73 percent do in Staten Island. Queens (52 percent opposed), Brooklyn (57 percent) and the Bronx (57 percent) fall in between. There's also a big split between Democratic (45 percent) and Republican (82 percent) levels of opposition.

Fuck this country, fuck it in the ass.

I find that so hard to believe. What with Democrats generally cheering on the bombing of Muslim civilians and occupation of Muslim countries, not to mention massive support for Israel (much more so than the GOP, which has far more established strains of anti-Semitism still present) that there would be any kind of residual resentment or antipathy towards Muslims within the party. 

Muslims are basically easier to pick on than blacks, less politically self-defeating than Latinos and with less nasty historical precedent than Jews.

IT JUST GOES TO SHOW

that bigotry transcends party lines


I was VERY surprised that my incredibly liberal brooklynite friend said that he'd relax about the mosque as soon as the mid-east was one giant asphalt parking lot.

I forget sometimes how emotional of an issue 9/11 is, and how for some people, it presses the TERRITORY DEFENSE button really really hard. And these people have not been silent over the last 9 years, they've been gathering support and concentrating their efforts.

Gov. Patterson says this is all very calculated. He believes it to be a right wing attempt to polarize voters- to get liberal voters to resonate with right wing talking points. Patterson thinks this will all go away in November. I tell you this, my fingers are crossed.

Even if the media drops it after November, the people will still feel the anxiety from it. Their opinions have already been lit like Roman candles, so if it's just a GOP attack vector, it's a dangerous game. You don't just polarize or extremize people for a single election - they stay polarized and extreme, and at best it becomes a dormant trait that can be activated at will once it's installed.

[Cain]

Agreed with Vex.  Patterson (who, as I recalled, has done nothing to stop this problem, and indeed has legitimized it to some degree) should know better, and if most high-ranking Dems are as stupid as he is, well, it explains quite a lot.

Republicans thrive on bigotry, and having an outgroup to persecute.  Liberals and atheists are always fair game, but many of those two groups are white (esp in the media) and so don't really get the ethnocentric hate juices flowing like they should (ironically, the plurality of American Muslims are white, however these are rarely seen in the media, positive or negative).  As alluded to above, blacks are too well politically organized now to go after in any kind of semi-public manner, the GOP tried to demonize Latinos and got burnt for it at the last election and Jews are a no-go for historical reasons (and Israel).

Muslims though....people have been primed to hate them for the last 10 years at least in a fairly hardcore fashion, and even before that, with the Israeli-Palestine conflict, American intervention in Lebanon, the revolution in Iran etc...the Middle East and all things associated with it does not have the best PR available.  And the Muslim demographic in America is tiny, 2-3 million at best.  Muslims used to support the Republicans overwhelming, for social conservative reasons, but since Bush Jr's reign that has dropped sharply, while still allowing him to win elections (more or less...).  They can be ignored and persecuted without much in the way of political losses, and because it's easy to whip people up into a panic over them.  And the GOP will do that for as long as they can, so long as it brings them power and allows them to dominate the news cycle with their own talking points.

Also, a quick irony for you: a 2007 survey of American non-Muslims showed that 52% of Americans agreed with the FBI wiretapping Muslims.  52% of Americans also think Muslims are targeted unfairly by law enforcement agencies.

[Jenne]

Agreed with Vex.  Patterson (who, as I recalled, has done nothing to stop this problem, and indeed has legitimized it to some degree) should know better, and if most high-ranking Dems are as stupid as he is, well, it explains quite a lot.

Republicans thrive on bigotry, and having an outgroup to persecute.  Liberals and atheists are always fair game, but many of those two groups are white (esp in the media) and so don't really get the ethnocentric hate juices flowing like they should (ironically, the plurality of American Muslims are white, however these are rarely seen in the media, positive or negative).  As alluded to above, blacks are too well politically organized now to go after in any kind of semi-public manner, the GOP tried to demonize Latinos and got burnt for it at the last election and Jews are a no-go for historical reasons (and Israel).

Muslims though....people have been primed to hate them for the last 10 years at least in a fairly hardcore fashion, and even before that, with the Israeli-Palestine conflict, American intervention in Lebanon, the revolution in Iran etc...the Middle East and all things associated with it does not have the best PR available.  And the Muslim demographic in America is tiny, 2-3 million at best.  Muslims used to support the Republicans overwhelming, for social conservative reasons, but since Bush Jr's reign that has dropped sharply, while still allowing him to win elections (more or less...).  They can be ignored and persecuted without much in the way of political losses, and because it's easy to whip people up into a panic over them.  And the GOP will do that for as long as they can, so long as it brings them power and allows them to dominate the news cycle with their own talking points.

Also, a quick irony for you: a 2007 survey of American non-Muslims showed that 52% of Americans agreed with the FBI wiretapping Muslims.  52% of Americans also think Muslims are targeted unfairly by law enforcement agencies.

Well said, and that last paragraph of yours--woof!  People are stupid.

[Cain]

THE FBI NEEDS MORE POWERS SO IT CAN UNFAIRLY TARGET MUSLIMS
\

[Jenne]

I think it speaks to the fact they easily preyed upon through fear, but want to still believe in "freedom."  Again, stupid.

[Juana]

The Founders had the right idea, I think. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Glenn Beck's online college thing teaches history, doesn't it?  I'd love to see a team of academic historians take that apart, piece by piece.

Apparently he teaches Faith 101, Hope 101, and Charity 101.

http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/42502/

Beck University is a unique academic experience bringing together experts in the fields of religion, American history and economics. Through captivating lectures and interactive online discussions, these experts will explore the concepts of Faith, Hope and Charity and show you how they influence America's past, her present and most importantly her future.

Why do I get the feeling that when this was written, 'Pomp and Circumstance' was playing in the background?

I'm not an academic historian (yet) but I think I've found myself a new project.

[Cain]

If you want resources or reference texts, you know who to contact.

[Juana]

  Of course I have to subscribe to get at it. I'm not giving Glenn Beck a dime so never mind.

[Cain]

Back in the day, people would shell out a small fortune for a good education.  Now they're willing to pay for miseducation.

[Cain]

Actually, for a long time I've wanted to a historical skeptic blog, taking apart the abuses of history and applying Bayesian style rationality to the (ab)use of history in political discourse (for instance, Bias ad Hitlerum, the idea that every tinpot third world dictator with some Ak-47's must be confronted, less he suddenly conquer Europe and invade the Soviet Union.  Whereas in fact it was Hitler that was the exception in international affairs, and military dictatorships are actually usually fairly stable.  Things like that).

It's just finding the time and effort.