Eristocracy

[tyrannosaurus vex]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

If we were dropped onto a government-less but populated planet and had to start a government from scratch, I imagine that we would form an theocratic oligarchy. Theocratic in that on such a world we would likely be seen as gods, and we would probably keep up that pretense, at least in the short term. I think that's technically a first, since most of what we consider to be theocracy is actually run by clerics as opposed to any actual gods. As far as what kind of oligarchy it may be democratic (amongst ourselves) or it might be a "you get this chunk of land, I get this chunk of land."  Probably wouldn't be best, but then again, we're still working the kinks out of "democracy."

[Disco Pickle]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

currently assembling ideas in my head, but am technically buried in work atm.  will try and have something this evening.  There's a LOT to consider in any answer including mores, morays and folkways that need to be in place to keep the system devolving due to the baser human instincts.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

Considering we fell from the sky it shouldnt be too hard to convince the local populace that we are Gods.

[Cain]

I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

Lord of the Flies by William Golding.

[Disco Pickle]

we're still working the kinks out of "democracy."

the "kinks" can never be worked out of democracy..  It's always failed eventually, and unless you compelling arguments to the contrary, I believe it always will fail..

eventually is the key word.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

we're still working the kinks out of "democracy."

the "kinks" can never be worked out of democracy..  It's always failed eventually, and unless you compelling arguments to the contrary, I believe it always will fail..

eventually is the key word.

Not disagreeing, but I do think that the democratic republic is the best form of government we've come up with.

[Thurnez Isa]

I think the first thing to consider is size of the population vs land mass vs resources
The bureaucracy needed for a spread out smaller population is different then a larger more compressed population.
The first thing to make sure of food supply. How much your people are hungry will go far into a stable government.

I think the best way to establish order (drawing on slightly from the American model) is not have a don't do list, but to have a series of rights for each individual in the society that can not be infringed upon by anyone including the government. Use that a stepping stone to build up your legal system.

Then of course get the tech tree working towards nukes.
Wait I'm think Civ4 here.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

A government that would succeed with humans....

1. National Security would have to be completely rethought from its current existence. Security would have to be an open process without relying on secrets. (See Open Source security model arguments). This would curtail mistrust of the government by the citizens.
2. The government would need to be flat from a communication perspective. No one individual would have a greater say or 'more power' than any others.
3. Legislators would be picked by lottery either annually or biannually. Laws would have a mandatory sunset date of ten years with each legislative session able to overturn previous laws before the sunset date.
4. Political parties would be forbidden from holding any official status. IE you can have a political party, but it doesn't get you squat in the actual government... no guaranteed spot on the ballot, no special caucus rights etc.
5. Maximize individual liberties and education, while minimizing prohibitive laws. Education should have a far larger budget than enforcement on almost all issues.

There's my first five ideas

[Disco Pickle]

Not disagreeing, but I do think that the democratic republic is the best form of government we've come up with.

well, then I'd agree with that, even though that's also devolving after only 200 years.

you didn't add republic to the end in your first post.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

A government that would succeed with humans....

1. National Security would have to be completely rethought from its current existence. Security would have to be an open process without relying on secrets. (See Open Source security model arguments). This would curtail mistrust of the government by the citizens.
2. The government would need to be flat from a communication perspective. No one individual would have a greater say or 'more power' than any others.
3. Legislators would be picked by lottery either annually or biannually. Laws would have a mandatory sunset date of ten years with each legislative session able to overturn previous laws before the sunset date.
4. Political parties would be forbidden from holding any official status. IE you can have a political party, but it doesn't get you squat in the actual government... no guaranteed spot on the ballot, no special caucus rights etc.
5. Maximize individual liberties and education, while minimizing prohibitive laws. Education should have a far larger budget than enforcement on almost all issues.

There's my first five ideas

Lets think in the present for a moment. Weve been dropped into a society of completely uncultured savages. They probably dont have the
same technology or standard of living we do. I dont think we would have the luxury of education at the starting point of the civilization, and theyd probably be using the barter system so wed have to establish some sort of currency before we could decide to channel more of it into education than law enforcement.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Not disagreeing, but I do think that the democratic republic is the best form of government we've come up with.

well, then I'd agree with that, even though that's also devolving after only 200 years.

you didn't add republic to the end in your first post.

Need foods. I get forgetful otherwise.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

A government that would succeed with humans....

1. National Security would have to be completely rethought from its current existence. Security would have to be an open process without relying on secrets. (See Open Source security model arguments). This would curtail mistrust of the government by the citizens.
2. The government would need to be flat from a communication perspective. No one individual would have a greater say or 'more power' than any others.
3. Legislators would be picked by lottery either annually or biannually. Laws would have a mandatory sunset date of ten years with each legislative session able to overturn previous laws before the sunset date.
4. Political parties would be forbidden from holding any official status. IE you can have a political party, but it doesn't get you squat in the actual government... no guaranteed spot on the ballot, no special caucus rights etc.
5. Maximize individual liberties and education, while minimizing prohibitive laws. Education should have a far larger budget than enforcement on almost all issues.

There's my first five ideas

Lets think in the present for a moment. Weve been dropped into a society of completely uncultured savages. They probably dont have the
same technology or standard of living we do. I dont think we would have the luxury of education at the starting point of the civilization, and theyd probably be using the barter system so wed have to establish some sort of currency before we could decide to channel more of it into education than law enforcement.

Placing it in this context makes some huge changes... After all, I have no idea what the mindset of humans are at the start of civilization... Some anthropologists argue that civilization was incidental an emergence from actions based on response to the environment.

If we're dealing with people that are just falling out of nomadic packs... the entire concept of government would be so alien to them, I'm not sure that we could implement anything other than theocracy/thugocracy.

If we presume that the humans are evolved enough to grasp the concepts of governance.... it would likely have to be something small and local, very tribal/anarchist* in design.


* Here we mean anarchist in the sense of voluntary association rather than compulsory allegiance. 

[tyrannosaurus vex]

EXERCISE CLARIFICATION

By "brutes with no government" I only meant to say we have no pre-conceived notions about what government is, and have to design a system from scratch. Whether they are actually cavemen was not a consideration.

All I'm trying to get at here is, what kind of government or economic system (or, preferably, both) would we invent if there were no bounds on our power to do it, and we were not terrible assholes (whether or not we actually are).

[BabylonHoruv]

Collectively we know a lot of shit about a lot of shit, and we're fairly adept at figuring things out that we don't already know.

So,

What do "we" (meaning a protracted debate) think would work best as a form of government and/or economic model?

I don't mean "pick something that has already been invented" unless you really think that's the best answer, I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

If they've managed to populate a whole planet without government, culture, or education I want to find out how they did it rather than try to impose something new.

(Although totalitarian theocracy with me as God Emperor would certainly be tempting)