Eristocracy

[Requia ☣]

A government that would succeed with humans....

1. National Security would have to be completely rethought from its current existence. Security would have to be an open process without relying on secrets. (See Open Source security model arguments). This would curtail mistrust of the government by the citizens.
2. The government would need to be flat from a communication perspective. No one individual would have a greater say or 'more power' than any others.
3. Legislators would be picked by lottery either annually or biannually. Laws would have a mandatory sunset date of ten years with each legislative session able to overturn previous laws before the sunset date.
4. Political parties would be forbidden from holding any official status. IE you can have a political party, but it doesn't get you squat in the actual government... no guaranteed spot on the ballot, no special caucus rights etc.
5. Maximize individual liberties and education, while minimizing prohibitive laws. Education should have a far larger budget than enforcement on almost all issues.

There's my first five ideas

Didn't Athens try this and have it turn out horribly?

The best I can come up with are variations on representative democracy (anything which does not allow the people self determination on the rare occasions the people can be arsed to vote against the status quo will eventually end in a lot of bloodshed).  Instant runoff voting instead of first past the post.  Ban any benefits of seniority for elected officials.  (A first term senator should have just as much power as a guy whose been there for 50 years), an establishment clause for political parties (as mentioned by Rat).  There must be a way for the people to prosecute (not just sue, but press criminal charges) members of the government without needing the permission of the government for the trial to take place (both for justice reasons and to prevent rumor and to limit the extent someone suffers trial by press and public opinion).

[tyrannosaurus vex]

There are a few good general ideas here, but mostly in terms of changes to the function of the system. Are rules against natural behavior the only way to check government's power and reduce corruption? Once a government is in power, it is effectively above the rules that it is supposed to abide by because it is the only body that can enforce them, but it is in its interests to break them instead.

Is there a way to incentivize good behavior in government, rather than trying to prohibit bad behavior?

[BabylonHoruv]

How does one press charges in court without governmental permission?  How would this be controlled so that opposition candidates couldn't just keep the folks in power tied up endlessly with frivolous cases?

[Requia ☣]

Presumably the same way civil cases are handled.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

A government that would succeed with humans....

1. National Security would have to be completely rethought from its current existence. Security would have to be an open process without relying on secrets. (See Open Source security model arguments). This would curtail mistrust of the government by the citizens.
2. The government would need to be flat from a communication perspective. No one individual would have a greater say or 'more power' than any others.
3. Legislators would be picked by lottery either annually or biannually. Laws would have a mandatory sunset date of ten years with each legislative session able to overturn previous laws before the sunset date.
4. Political parties would be forbidden from holding any official status. IE you can have a political party, but it doesn't get you squat in the actual government... no guaranteed spot on the ballot, no special caucus rights etc.
5. Maximize individual liberties and education, while minimizing prohibitive laws. Education should have a far larger budget than enforcement on almost all issues.

There's my first five ideas

Didn't Athens try this and have it turn out horribly?

Athens had Direct Democracy. If you were a male that had completed their military training you could show up at the Assembly and vote on issues. However, specific administrative offices were picked by lottery. Overall, Athenian democracy was a success. There were some issues, but I have yet to see a perfect system. What 'horrible' bits are you thinking of?

[Requia ☣]

Socrates?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

Socrates?

Ah... yep. Bad call, but really if you let monkeys manage themselves the occasional "kill that dude" is gonna happen. I mean what is a lynch mob but emotional 'direct democracy'?

I don't think a government exists which would make NO bad decisions... and it seems like the lottery selection process had much less to do with Socrates death than the xenophobia and religious beliefs of the people.

ETA: Not to mention that Socrates liked poking the people of Athens, telling them that they sucked and weren't as cool as Sparta (their arch rivals) and generally behaving like as ass to the people living around him. It's interesting that so many of the 'martyrs' for philosophy often get taken out because they intentionally try to stir shit. Obviously with the idea that it will somehow wake people up, but generally it appears to just piss people off.

[Disco Pickle]

I mean what is a lynch mob but emotional 'direct democracy'?

I mean what is a lynch mob direct democracy but an emotional 'direct democracy'?lynch mob?

fixed.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I mean what is a lynch mob but emotional 'direct democracy'?

I mean what is a lynch mob direct democracy but an emotional 'direct democracy'?lynch mob?

fixed.

I mean what is a lynch mob direct democracy but an emotional 'direct democracy'? rational lynch mob?

There ya go...

[Disco Pickle]

I mean what is a lynch mob direct democracy but an emotional 'direct democracy'? rational lynch mob?

There ya go...

I believe the direct meaning of Ochlocracy rules out reason and rationality.

Those crazy greeks.

[Placid Dingo]

Socrates?

Ah... yep. Bad call, but really if you let monkeys manage themselves the occasional "kill that dude" is gonna happen. I mean what is a lynch mob but emotional 'direct democracy'?

I don't think a government exists which would make NO bad decisions... and it seems like the lottery selection process had much less to do with Socrates death than the xenophobia and religious beliefs of the people.

ETA: Not to mention that Socrates liked poking the people of Athens, telling them that they sucked and weren't as cool as Sparta (their arch rivals) and generally behaving like as ass to the people living around him. It's interesting that so many of the 'martyrs' for philosophy often get taken out because they intentionally try to stir shit. Obviously with the idea that it will somehow wake people up, but generally it appears to just piss people off.

IT's been said the Socrates participated in every step of his martydom, right up to the night before the poison, when he was given the chance to escape prison.

[BabylonHoruv]

Presumably the same way civil cases are handled.

Civil cases require government permission.  Judges won't hear cases they feel are frivolous.

[Sano]

I mean, if we were dropped on to a planet full of uncultured, uneducated goons with no discernable form of government at all, and asked us to create one for them from scratch, what would it look like?

You mean what would I change if I ran into a group of people that has no form of government yet people are stupid enough not to ruin each other's lives? Why would I change that?

If I had to, I would convince them to... I don't know. Good question.

[Requia ☣]

Presumably the same way civil cases are handled.

Civil cases require government permission.  Judges won't hear cases they feel are frivolous.

Yes they will, they might toss them out 5 seconds after hearing them, but they are obliged to read the complaint.

More importantly, you don't need to permission of the prosecutors office to file a civil case.

[Rumckle]

Ban any benefits of seniority for elected officials.  (A first term senator should have just as much power as a guy whose been there for 50 years)

This seems impossible to me, I mean you could make sure they don't get any official power (which is how it is here, unless you count cabinet positions as special power, though technically a first term rep could get that), but in the end, the longer they've been there the more connections and unofficial power they will have.


One thing I would change within our system is making the parties in the Upper house completely separate from the parties in the lower house (not sure how exactly to go about that though).