Author Topic: The world would have been better off without the following "classical" writers:  (Read 11321 times)

Nephew Twiddleton

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?
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BabylonHoruv

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?

In some cases.  You should read the prince, it's not very long, it's written in fairly simple language, and it helps with playing boardgames too, not just ruling countries.
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Nephew Twiddleton

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?

In some cases.  You should read the prince, it's not very long, it's written in fairly simple language, and it helps with playing boardgames too, not just ruling countries.

Hmm... Will do then. After I move, naturally.
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Phox

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?

Only if it was less risky than being a total douche-fag. Since he was writing The Prince to a ruler who could be decently accurately compared to Al Capone in his heyday, it seems to me it was more like "You should maybe be a little nicer, but then, you're doing pretty good as it is, so keep doin' what you're doin'. i can haz jailbreak??" He did write it while in prison, ya know.

In all honesty though, he tended to be more in-between and less extreme than people give credit, but he did tend to favor the "bad guy" way of doing things in most issues. Example: "Is it better to be loved than feared? My reply is one ought to be both loved and feared; but since it is difficult to accomplish both at the same time, I maintain it is much safer to be feared than loved..."

Nephew Twiddleton

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?

Only if it was less risky than being a total douche-fag. Since he was writing The Prince to a ruler who could be decently accurately compared to Al Capone in his heyday, it seems to me it was more like "You should maybe be a little nicer, but then, you're doing pretty good as it is, so keep doin' what you're doin'. i can haz jailbreak??" He did write it while in prison, ya know.

In all honesty though, he tended to be more in-between and less extreme than people give credit, but he did tend to favor the "bad guy" way of doing things in most issues. Example: "Is it better to be loved than feared? My reply is one ought to be both loved and feared; but since it is difficult to accomplish both at the same time, I maintain it is much safer to be feared than loved..."

I guess that the advice is also tailored to a sort of long term vs. short term goal. Do you want all the power and to hell with your kids and country? Be a douche. Do you want to have your country have longstanding influence in the area? Be a solid dude.
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Phox

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?

Only if it was less risky than being a total douche-fag. Since he was writing The Prince to a ruler who could be decently accurately compared to Al Capone in his heyday, it seems to me it was more like "You should maybe be a little nicer, but then, you're doing pretty good as it is, so keep doin' what you're doin'. i can haz jailbreak??" He did write it while in prison, ya know.

In all honesty though, he tended to be more in-between and less extreme than people give credit, but he did tend to favor the "bad guy" way of doing things in most issues. Example: "Is it better to be loved than feared? My reply is one ought to be both loved and feared; but since it is difficult to accomplish both at the same time, I maintain it is much safer to be feared than loved..."

I guess that the advice is also tailored to a sort of long term vs. short term goal. Do you want all the power and to hell with your kids and country? Be a douche. Do you want to have your country have longstanding influence in the area? Be a solid dude.

I can't find it off hand, but he mentions somewhere that whenever one acquires a free city (that is, one that isn't used to have a prince of Machiavelli's definition), he or she should burn it to the ground because once the people have tasted freedom they will be unlikely to bow to a prince. So... yeah.

Placid Dingo

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Ayn Rand. The woman couldn't write, and her philosophy was just a reaction to her upbringing in the USSR.


Not to mention nothing even remotely good has ever come about from her philosophy besides Bioshock.
I mean think of all the bullshit shes given us, Tea Baggers, Glenn Beck, Glenn Beck, Bioshock 2.
Machiavelli has done more good for the world than her, and he could actually write too.

Plus she was practically the patron saint of creepy cougars. 

Machiavelli has done a lot of good.  If we are going to be ruled by evil they could at least do it right.

Never read him, but didn't he conclude that it was more strategic to be a benevolent ruler?

Only if it was less risky than being a total douche-fag. Since he was writing The Prince to a ruler who could be decently accurately compared to Al Capone in his heyday, it seems to me it was more like "You should maybe be a little nicer, but then, you're doing pretty good as it is, so keep doin' what you're doin'. i can haz jailbreak??" He did write it while in prison, ya know.

In all honesty though, he tended to be more in-between and less extreme than people give credit, but he did tend to favor the "bad guy" way of doing things in most issues. Example: "Is it better to be loved than feared? My reply is one ought to be both loved and feared; but since it is difficult to accomplish both at the same time, I maintain it is much safer to be feared than loved..."

I guess that the advice is also tailored to a sort of long term vs. short term goal. Do you want all the power and to hell with your kids and country? Be a douche. Do you want to have your country have longstanding influence in the area? Be a solid dude.

I read it as 'it is imperative that you be seen to be good and benevolent. You must keep this appearance up no matter what you do. If it's possible to actually BE good and benevolent as well, all the better.
If sheep entrails could in any way be related to the weather, i.e. sheep trails only originate where it rains, then you could use it as an accurate model for discerning what the weathers going to be like. Either, sheep shit makes it rain, or raining makes sheep shit. Sheep don't shit "randomly" sheep shit after they eat, it doesn't rain "randomly" it rains after water collects in the atmosphere.

The Wizard

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Example: "Is it better to be loved than feared? My reply is one ought to be both loved and feared; but since it is difficult to accomplish both at the same time, I maintain it is much safer to be feared than loved..."

I prefer the Vetinari approach. It's better to be permanent than either of the other two.
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Epimetheus

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He did write it while in prison, ya know.

Wasn't it exile?
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Phox

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He did write it while in prison, ya know.

Wasn't it exile?

I don't think so. I could be wrong though. Either way, he was being punished for his role in the pre-Medici government and trying to get into the leader's good graces by half-ass agreeing with his policies. He did eventually get to return to Florence (or get out of prison, whichever).

Juana

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He did write it while in prison, ya know.

Wasn't it exile?

I don't think so. I could be wrong though. Either way, he was being punished for his role in the pre-Medici government and trying to get into the leader's good graces by half-ass agreeing with his policies. He did eventually get to return to Florence (or get out of prison, whichever).
Exile. And no, he died outside Florence iirc.
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Phox

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He did write it while in prison, ya know.

Wasn't it exile?

I don't think so. I could be wrong though. Either way, he was being punished for his role in the pre-Medici government and trying to get into the leader's good graces by half-ass agreeing with his policies. He did eventually get to return to Florence (or get out of prison, whichever).
Exile. And no, he died outside Florence iirc.
Really? I was pretty sure he got to go home and spend the last however many years of his life writing letters and such. Then again he might have lived outside of Florence anyway... I will have to find my comprehensive Machiavelli book and look at it again....

Cain

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I like Byron as a personality, and his poetry was certainly the best of his contemporaries....but, well, when you're up against foppish Royalists like William Wordsworth, that isn't exactly hard.

Cain

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He did write it while in prison, ya know.

Wasn't it exile?

I don't think so. I could be wrong though. Either way, he was being punished for his role in the pre-Medici government and trying to get into the leader's good graces by half-ass agreeing with his policies. He did eventually get to return to Florence (or get out of prison, whichever).
Exile. And no, he died outside Florence iirc.
Really? I was pretty sure he got to go home and spend the last however many years of his life writing letters and such. Then again he might have lived outside of Florence anyway... I will have to find my comprehensive Machiavelli book and look at it again....

He was exiled from political life in Florence, and his estate was just outside the city.  It wasn't exile in the formal sense, it's just no-one was going to let someone like him near political office ever again.

Also, The Prince is halfway between a satire and the world's longest job application letter.  The advice in it was all good advice for an absolute ruler, no doubt....but it's point was to draw comparison between the spritual rhetoric and ugly power politics of the Vatican.  He also hoped it would get him back in the graces of the Medici and make them forget certain choice paragraphs about assassination and plots in his Discourses on Livy (it didn't).

He spent his years outside of office writing bawdy, satirical plays, which were highly popular throughout northern Italy, and tended to take very sharp swipes at the priesthood and their claims to piety, and possibly plotting against the Medici, though nothing was ever proven.

Cain

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Also, Ayn Rand is in no sense a "classical" writer.