Liberaltarianism

[Doktor Howl]

As I said, voting democrat locally is a loosing battle, as they never get elected here.  I'm less interested in national politics than I am in local.

Yes, if you don't vote like everyone else, you're wasting your vote.  So you should vote for the gay-bashers and bigots. 

[Doktor Howl]

Maybe he confused Hate Crimes with Hate Speech.

Personally, I think Crime should be crime and you should get an equal sentence for your crime if your victim is the same gender preference/skin color or different... but hate crimes are about crimes, not speech.

Interesting.  So should ANY motive be considered in the sentencing of a crime?

Sure, but those should be based on the intent of the perpetrator. That is, Manslaughter and 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree murder etc.

If you PLAN to murder person X because of Money you are just as guilty of murder as someone who PLANNED to murder person X because he was Gay or Black.

this is what I've always thought of as the correct motorcycle.

Okay, if I murder someone out of revenge, I am on the same moral level as Nigel, who kills people for a flat fee?

(She does, you know.  That's why there are no Shriners in Portland.  The Moose Lodge had her kill them all.)

[Freeky]

Maybe he confused Hate Crimes with Hate Speech.

Personally, I think Crime should be crime and you should get an equal sentence for your crime if your victim is the same gender preference/skin color or different... but hate crimes are about crimes, not speech.

Interesting.  So should ANY motive be considered in the sentencing of a crime?

Sure, but those should be based on the intent of the perpetrator. That is, Manslaughter and 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree murder etc.

If you PLAN to murder person X because of Money you are just as guilty of murder as someone who PLANNED to murder person X because he was Gay or Black.

this is what I've always thought of as the correct motorcycle.

Okay, if I murder someone out of revenge, I am on the same moral level as Nigel, who kills people for a flat fee?

(She does, you know.  That's why there are no Shriners in Portland.  The Moose Lodge had her kill them all.)

This SOUNDS like it ought to be a trick question, but according to my world view, it isn't, and the answer would be "yes." 

Murder is wrong no matter who does it or why.

[Freeky]

Even when I think otherwise.



According to MY personal world view.

[Doktor Howl]

Maybe he confused Hate Crimes with Hate Speech.

Personally, I think Crime should be crime and you should get an equal sentence for your crime if your victim is the same gender preference/skin color or different... but hate crimes are about crimes, not speech.

Interesting.  So should ANY motive be considered in the sentencing of a crime?

Sure, but those should be based on the intent of the perpetrator. That is, Manslaughter and 1st, 2nd, 3rd degree murder etc.

If you PLAN to murder person X because of Money you are just as guilty of murder as someone who PLANNED to murder person X because he was Gay or Black.

this is what I've always thought of as the correct motorcycle.

Okay, if I murder someone out of revenge, I am on the same moral level as Nigel, who kills people for a flat fee?

(She does, you know.  That's why there are no Shriners in Portland.  The Moose Lodge had her kill them all.)

This SOUNDS like it ought to be a trick question, but according to my world view, it isn't, and the answer would be "yes." 

Murder is wrong no matter who does it or why.

Okay, I'll buy that.  How about negligence?

Dancing Pickle knows he has bad brakes, and drives anyway.  He runs over a small child in the street because his car won't stop.  He's guilty of manslaughter, right (ie, accidental death caused by negligence or an illegal act)?

[Requia ☣]

You can make a decent argument that hate crimes have the same moral level as non hate crimes, and vice versa.  

But regardless of the morals, people who kill people in hate crimes in places where there are no hate crime laws don't get convicted of murder, they get convicted of assault with a deadly weapon or some other minor penalty and only get a couple years in jail, that is if the cops bother to investigate the crime at all.

Hate crime laws are vital in making sure local authorities actually do their goddamned job, instead of beating on the victim when a hate crime gets reported.

[Doktor Howl]

But regardless of the morals, people who kill people in hate crimes in places where there are no hate crime laws don't get convicted of murder, they get convicted of assault with a deadly weapon or some other minor penalty and only get a couple years in jail, that is if the cops bother to investigate the crime at all.

wut

[Freeky]

That's where it gets sticky.

Accidents can be horrible, and yeah he deserves to go to prison, but negligence causing a death isn't quite as bad as actively seeking to take a life.

Even if it were the monkey.

[Freeky]

Of course, the difference is negligible.

[Doktor Howl]

That's where it gets sticky.

Accidents can be horrible, and yeah he deserves to go to prison, but negligence causing a death isn't quite as bad as actively seeking to take a life.

Even if it were the monkey.

Okay.  So we check everyone's brakes, and we find that Ratatosk's brakes are also bad, but he hasn't hit anyone yet.

So we pitch him in jail for attempted murder/reckless endangerment.

I think I like this "motives don't matter" argument.  We can throw everyone in jail.

[Freeky]

That's where it gets sticky.

Accidents can be horrible, and yeah he deserves to go to prison, but negligence causing a death isn't quite as bad as actively seeking to take a life.

Even if it were the monkey.

Okay.  So we check everyone's brakes, and we find that Ratatosk's brakes are also bad, but he hasn't hit anyone yet.

So we pitch him in jail for attempted murder/reckless endangerment.

I think I like this "motives don't matter" argument.  We can throw everyone in jail.

Wait, what? I wasn't making that argument.

[Doktor Howl]

That's where it gets sticky.

Accidents can be horrible, and yeah he deserves to go to prison, but negligence causing a death isn't quite as bad as actively seeking to take a life.

Even if it were the monkey.

Okay.  So we check everyone's brakes, and we find that Ratatosk's brakes are also bad, but he hasn't hit anyone yet.

So we pitch him in jail for attempted murder/reckless endangerment.

I think I like this "motives don't matter" argument.  We can throw everyone in jail.

Wait, what? I wasn't making that argument.

Well, if motives don't matter, we only need consider the physical aspects of any case, with no other considerations.  Ergo, if you have bad brakes, you are guilty of reckless endangerment at the very least.

[Freeky]

That's where it gets sticky.

Accidents can be horrible, and yeah he deserves to go to prison, but negligence causing a death isn't quite as bad as actively seeking to take a life.

Even if it were the monkey.

Okay.  So we check everyone's brakes, and we find that Ratatosk's brakes are also bad, but he hasn't hit anyone yet.

So we pitch him in jail for attempted murder/reckless endangerment.

I think I like this "motives don't matter" argument.  We can throw everyone in jail.

Wait, what? I wasn't making that argument.

Well, if motives don't matter, we only need consider the physical aspects of any case, with no other considerations.  Ergo, if you have bad brakes, you are guilty of reckless endangerment at the very least.

I'm not sure what you think I was thinking when I wrote that post, but what I was thinking was "Negligence which causes death =/= murder".

Beyond that,

[Juana]

The 1969 federal hate-crime law (18 U.S.C. § 245(b)(2)) extends to crimes motivated by actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin, and only while the victim is engaging in a federally-protected activity, like voting or going to school.[12]  Penalties, under both the existing law and the LLEHCPA (Local Law Enforcement Hate Crimes Prevention Act, originally called the "Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act"), for hate crimes involving firearms are prison terms of up to 10 years, while crimes involving kidnapping, sexual assault, or murder can bring life in prison

From here: Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act: Background
Doesn't mean they're added all the time, though.

[Requia ☣]

But regardless of the morals, people who kill people in hate crimes in places where there are no hate crime laws don't get convicted of murder, they get convicted of assault with a deadly weapon or some other minor penalty and only get a couple years in jail, that is if the cops bother to investigate the crime at all.

wut

Happened in the 90s, a transsexual was killed, her killer got convicted of assault and battery, served 2 1/2 years.

http://www.gendertalk.com/articles/archive/globcp.shtml