Democrats planning to cut Social Security while acting as its protectors

[Doktor Howl]

I like the way you think Howl, rejecting established ideas out of hand and forming your own, but I haven't heard you offer any of your own.  So what does the Dok think is the best prescription for what ails us?

30% more government.

But I don't want to help, remember.

I just get a giggle out of someone who has bought into an ism.

and i get a kick out of someone who says something like this:

So.  2/3rds of old people deserve to starve.

I see.

and then advocates for something that would ensure it.

I'm not sure yet whether you believe what you say, about not wanting to help, or you're just a very intelligent troll.

I'm guessing when you talk about Discord, if you ever do, you always leave off the ism

Actually, I stopped being serious the moment you announced you religious beliefs (ie, the LP).

[Adios]

The entire system resembles a Ponzi Scheme.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul, or whatever colloquialism you want to use.

It's unsustainable based on several factors:

Population growth and therefore payroll taxes as new workers enter the market, has not met the number of people in the Baby Boomer generation that have begun to retire.

Inflation has always outpaced wages, so the amount of payroll tax taken out for social security has stayed stagnant, even as prices have continued to rise for everything, especially health care and prescription drugs.

You cannot continue to take in diminishing taxes to fund a system that has only ever seen increasing costs.  Either the cost for services has to come down, or the amount of services has to come down.

I'm considering it theft at this point in my life, as all data seems to say that there will be no real money left in the system when I reach retirement age in 2045..  and that's if they don't raise the minimum age, which is highly unlikely.

The issue is, people paid into the fund not to pay for older folks, but to pay for themselves.  The government then chose to use that money to pay for other things.  It is not old folks fault the government did this and they are not the right sector to cut to make up the difference.

Not saying that the only solution is to cut their benefit.  I am aware the government spent it on other things, of course they would, because they believe themselves above retribution for doing so. 

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

So.  2/3rds of old people deserve to starve.

I see.

they deserve the government they have.  Starve to death (dramatic much?) is not likely, as it's clear the benefits will be paid until it requires us to start borrowing to fund it, like we do almost everything else.

you guys..  love you guys, but you're still putting words into my posts that cannot be inferred from reading them.  

Know what? If you had even read any of what I posted you would see that it is a one time problem brought about by people having fewer kids.

Why do you insist on taking what is mine? Who gave you that authority? Not me. It will require a ONE TIME fix, but, please don't allow fucking facts to get in your way.
Why is the idea of starving to death a joke with you? What are they supposed to buy food with? Your rhetoric?

[Disco Pickle]

I like the way you think Howl, rejecting established ideas out of hand and forming your own, but I haven't heard you offer any of your own.  So what does the Dok think is the best prescription for what ails us?

30% more government.

But I don't want to help, remember.

I just get a giggle out of someone who has bought into an ism.

and i get a kick out of someone who says something like this:

So.  2/3rds of old people deserve to starve.

I see.

and then advocates for something that would ensure it.

I'm not sure yet whether you believe what you say, about not wanting to help, or you're just a very intelligent troll.

I'm guessing when you talk about Discord, if you ever do, you always leave off the ism

Actually, I stopped being serious the moment you announced you religious beliefs (ie, the LP).

do you even vote anymore?

god knows I'd understand if you didn't, I've wanted to stop for years..

but I'm curious.

[Adios]

Hell, Dok. We're just getting old and senile and our right to life and opinion just doesn't count. Please just roll off of the travois into a snowbank and die now, i will be on the next one.

Interesting how, no matter how we may have voted, that we are being blamed for the government of the past isn't it? But the government is so much better now that I guess they will show us how to do it right.

[Disco Pickle]

The entire system resembles a Ponzi Scheme.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul, or whatever colloquialism you want to use.

It's unsustainable based on several factors:

Population growth and therefore payroll taxes as new workers enter the market, has not met the number of people in the Baby Boomer generation that have begun to retire.

Inflation has always outpaced wages, so the amount of payroll tax taken out for social security has stayed stagnant, even as prices have continued to rise for everything, especially health care and prescription drugs.

You cannot continue to take in diminishing taxes to fund a system that has only ever seen increasing costs.  Either the cost for services has to come down, or the amount of services has to come down.

I'm considering it theft at this point in my life, as all data seems to say that there will be no real money left in the system when I reach retirement age in 2045..  and that's if they don't raise the minimum age, which is highly unlikely.

The issue is, people paid into the fund not to pay for older folks, but to pay for themselves.  The government then chose to use that money to pay for other things.  It is not old folks fault the government did this and they are not the right sector to cut to make up the difference.

Not saying that the only solution is to cut their benefit.  I am aware the government spent it on other things, of course they would, because they believe themselves above retribution for doing so. 

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

So.  2/3rds of old people deserve to starve.

I see.

they deserve the government they have.  Starve to death (dramatic much?) is not likely, as it's clear the benefits will be paid until it requires us to start borrowing to fund it, like we do almost everything else.

you guys..  love you guys, but you're still putting words into my posts that cannot be inferred from reading them.  

Know what? If you had even read any of what I posted you would see that it is a one time problem brought about by people having fewer kids.

Why do you insist on taking what is mine? Who gave you that authority? Not me. It will require a ONE TIME fix, but, please don't allow fucking facts to get in your way.
Why is the idea of starving to death a joke with you? What are they supposed to buy food with? Your rhetoric?

CB, I should have addressed your post more closely, sorry for that.  I haven't advocated "taking what is yours"  It's yours, you paid it in, you should get it back.  I read the Post article you posted, which is a reasoned solution, but it's also a solution I hear almost no one in D.C. discussing.  Either the think tanks are floundering on this, or there's a bigger problem than we're being told and that solution would not fill up the potential hole of that possible problem.

That solution sounds workable, but if it would really work, why isn't it being yelled from the mountain tops in our nations capital?

[Triple Zero]

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

Dude that's fucking harsh.

Yeah so they may be responsible for whatever, but that's neither here nor there.

You need to take care of the elderly, they are people's parents and even if not they deserve a fucking decent standard of living like any other human being even when they're too old to work.

Plus there's always the question in how far "those people" were really responsible for their government. Last time I checked you have been playing this two-man Con for the better part of this century. I'm not too well educated on USA political history, but if I'm getting the OP ITT right, let's say you wanted to vote FOR social welfare last elections. You thought you were doing a good job by voting for teh Obama. BZZZZZZZZZZZZT apparently not. Would it have been better to vote the republican guy? Hell no. So third party, would that have helped? Let's say it would have. Do you think it would be fair if in 30 years when our kids are stuck with the crap that your government has made for them today, the kids would blame all the current-day US voters that didn't vote for the magical third-party rainbow unicorn?

[Adios]

The entire system resembles a Ponzi Scheme.  Robbing Peter to pay Paul, or whatever colloquialism you want to use.

It's unsustainable based on several factors:

Population growth and therefore payroll taxes as new workers enter the market, has not met the number of people in the Baby Boomer generation that have begun to retire.

Inflation has always outpaced wages, so the amount of payroll tax taken out for social security has stayed stagnant, even as prices have continued to rise for everything, especially health care and prescription drugs.

You cannot continue to take in diminishing taxes to fund a system that has only ever seen increasing costs.  Either the cost for services has to come down, or the amount of services has to come down.

I'm considering it theft at this point in my life, as all data seems to say that there will be no real money left in the system when I reach retirement age in 2045..  and that's if they don't raise the minimum age, which is highly unlikely.

The issue is, people paid into the fund not to pay for older folks, but to pay for themselves.  The government then chose to use that money to pay for other things.  It is not old folks fault the government did this and they are not the right sector to cut to make up the difference.

Not saying that the only solution is to cut their benefit.  I am aware the government spent it on other things, of course they would, because they believe themselves above retribution for doing so. 

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

So.  2/3rds of old people deserve to starve.

I see.

they deserve the government they have.  Starve to death (dramatic much?) is not likely, as it's clear the benefits will be paid until it requires us to start borrowing to fund it, like we do almost everything else.

you guys..  love you guys, but you're still putting words into my posts that cannot be inferred from reading them.  

Know what? If you had even read any of what I posted you would see that it is a one time problem brought about by people having fewer kids.

Why do you insist on taking what is mine? Who gave you that authority? Not me. It will require a ONE TIME fix, but, please don't allow fucking facts to get in your way.
Why is the idea of starving to death a joke with you? What are they supposed to buy food with? Your rhetoric?

CB, I should have addressed your post more closely, sorry for that.  I haven't advocated "taking what is yours"  It's yours, you paid it in, you should get it back.  I read the Post article you posted, which is a reasoned solution, but it's also a solution I hear almost no one in D.C. discussing.  Either the think tanks are floundering on this, or there's a bigger problem than we're being told and that solution would not fill up the potential hole of that possible problem.

That solution sounds workable, but if it would really work, why isn't it being yelled from the mountain tops in our nations capital?

Obvious answer is fucking obvious. They want the money. What? If SS was dropped you actually think your taxes would go down?  

Kids.

[Adios]

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

Dude that's fucking harsh.

Yeah so they may be responsible for whatever, but that's neither here nor there.

You need to take care of the elderly, they are people's parents and even if not they deserve a fucking decent standard of living like any other human being even when they're too old to work.

Plus there's always the question in how far "those people" were really responsible for their government. Last time I checked you have been playing this two-man Con for the better part of this century. I'm not too well educated on USA political history, but if I'm getting the OP ITT right, let's say you wanted to vote FOR social welfare last elections. You thought you were doing a good job by voting for teh Obama. BZZZZZZZZZZZZT apparently not. Would it have been better to vote the republican guy? Hell no. So third party, would that have helped? Let's say it would have. Do you think it would be fair if in 30 years when our kids are stuck with the crap that your government has made for them today, the kids would blame all the current-day US voters that didn't vote for the magical third-party rainbow unicorn?

Yeah, that pissed me right the fuck off.

[Doktor Howl]

I like the way you think Howl, rejecting established ideas out of hand and forming your own, but I haven't heard you offer any of your own.  So what does the Dok think is the best prescription for what ails us?

30% more government.

But I don't want to help, remember.

I just get a giggle out of someone who has bought into an ism.

and i get a kick out of someone who says something like this:

So.  2/3rds of old people deserve to starve.

I see.

and then advocates for something that would ensure it.

I'm not sure yet whether you believe what you say, about not wanting to help, or you're just a very intelligent troll.

I'm guessing when you talk about Discord, if you ever do, you always leave off the ism

Actually, I stopped being serious the moment you announced you religious beliefs (ie, the LP).

do you even vote anymore?

god knows I'd understand if you didn't, I've wanted to stop for years..

but I'm curious.

Yes, I vote.  Out of any given collection of professional liars, there is one that's nuttier or just funnier than the rest.  That's the one I vote for.

[Thurnez Isa]

someone is really disenfranchised in this thread

[Doktor Howl]

That solution sounds workable,

I love that phrase.

[Adios]

someone is really disenfranchised in this thread

PICK ME!

[Disco Pickle]

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

Dude that's fucking harsh.

Yeah so they may be responsible for whatever, but that's neither here nor there.

You need to take care of the elderly, they are people's parents and even if not they deserve a fucking decent standard of living like any other human being even when they're too old to work.

Plus there's always the question in how far "those people" were really responsible for their government. Last time I checked you have been playing this two-man Con for the better part of this century. I'm not too well educated on USA political history, but if I'm getting the OP ITT right, let's say you wanted to vote FOR social welfare last elections. You thought you were doing a good job by voting for teh Obama. BZZZZZZZZZZZZT apparently not. Would it have been better to vote the republican guy? Hell no. So third party, would that have helped? Let's say it would have. Do you think it would be fair if in 30 years when our kids are stuck with the crap that your government has made for them today, the kids would blame all the current-day US voters that didn't vote for the magical third-party rainbow unicorn?

Again, someone thinking I'm saying "fuck old people" when clearly I'm not.  Anything that was contributed, was promised to be paid back, and should be paid back.  Broad brushing me as a heartless human who wants old people to just die off is out of touch with the reality of ANYTHING I've tried to contribute to this thread.

What I did say, and yeah, it sounds pretty damn harsh, is this: the generation that contributed MOST to the fund, also put in place people all over the country who continue to vote for increased military spending, allowing the SS coffer to be raided for other things, and who's only solution to the liquidity problem is to raise the taxes on the children of that generation in order to sweep the misdeeds under the rug and cover for the massive inflation that will require more benefit paid out than is paid in, in cost of living increases.

So if I'm saying, "you made your bed, lie in it" then yeah, that part of my arguement is harsh, and pretty cut throat..  I'll be the first to admit that.

maybe I'm more like Dok than I'm really admitting, and just want to see the whole fuckin thing burn down.  Nearly every baby boomer I've had in depth conversations with has bought into the "us vs them" idea of Foreign Policy with regard to the middle east, advocated for bombing brown people who don't run their country like we would want them to, and tells me in plain words that every generation since theirs has just been shit and they get what they deserve for being a bunch of slackers and video game addicts and drug addicts.

How is that collective mindset any different?

[Adios]

As to not blaming Older Folks for the government spending the money.  eh..  Those older folks were younger folks once, and voted for their government, sometimes leaving the same people in Congress for decades..   For any who didn't vote, or who didn't understand or who didn't care and just pulled the lever for anyone but "the other guy"

well, they got the government they deserved, and I have no sympathy for them..  and if I'm being honest, I harbor a general resentment of the baby boomers in general, as a generation, for the government they've kept in power.  Not saying they're all clueless idiots who followed the first lemming blindly off the cliff..  but damn if the largest voting population in history didn't set us on this course, I'm not sure who else did.

Dude that's fucking harsh.

Yeah so they may be responsible for whatever, but that's neither here nor there.

You need to take care of the elderly, they are people's parents and even if not they deserve a fucking decent standard of living like any other human being even when they're too old to work.

Plus there's always the question in how far "those people" were really responsible for their government. Last time I checked you have been playing this two-man Con for the better part of this century. I'm not too well educated on USA political history, but if I'm getting the OP ITT right, let's say you wanted to vote FOR social welfare last elections. You thought you were doing a good job by voting for teh Obama. BZZZZZZZZZZZZT apparently not. Would it have been better to vote the republican guy? Hell no. So third party, would that have helped? Let's say it would have. Do you think it would be fair if in 30 years when our kids are stuck with the crap that your government has made for them today, the kids would blame all the current-day US voters that didn't vote for the magical third-party rainbow unicorn?

Again, someone thinking I'm saying "fuck old people" when clearly I'm not.  Anything that was contributed, was promised to be paid back, and should be paid back.  Broad brushing me as a heartless human who wants old people to just die off is out of touch with the reality of ANYTHING I've tried to contribute to this thread.

What I did say, and yeah, it sounds pretty damn harsh, is this: the generation that contributed MOST to the fund, also put in place people all over the country who continue to vote for increased military spending, allowing the SS coffer to be raided for other things, and who's only solution to the liquidity problem is to raise the taxes on the children of that generation in order to sweep the misdeeds under the rug and cover for the massive inflation that will require more benefit paid out than is paid in, in cost of living increases.

So if I'm saying, "you made your bed, lie in it" then yeah, that part of my arguement is harsh, and pretty cut throat..  I'll be the first to admit that.

maybe I'm more like Dok than I'm really admitting, and just want to see the whole fuckin thing burn down.  Nearly every baby boomer I've had in depth conversations with has bought into the "us vs them" idea of Foreign Policy with regard to the middle east, advocated for bombing brown people who don't run their country like we would want them to, and tells me in plain words that every generation since theirs has just been shit and they get what they deserve for being a bunch of slackers and video game addicts and drug addicts.

How is that collective mindset any different?

Nice to know the world has remained static for the last 60 years. Seriously, it wasn't different then. Back in the good old days when only the Japanese were afraid of nuclear weapons. But I suppost 2/3 of them deserved to be afraid, didn't they?

So, thanks old timers, for doing your best to hold shit together so the kids have today, now GTFO and die, thanks,

[Doktor Howl]

Again, someone thinking I'm saying "fuck old people" when clearly I'm not.  Anything that was contributed, was promised to be paid back, and should be paid back.

The fact that people need(ed) it up until now indicates that they'll need it in the future.  What is your solution for disabled or feeble elderly people in the future?