an argument for a deflationary policy in the You Ess of Heeeeey

[Cain]

The AmCon link is a good start.  It's by a conservative who explicity states Libertarianism is the Marxism of the Right.  Also, PM of goodies for you coming in, Dok.

[Doktor Howl]

I can't read this whole thread because it's too full of herp derp.

I can't tell if Pickles is naive, stupid, or trolling.

He's badly infected with the Libertarianism meme.

But we can cure that.  With SCIENCE!

Wait, you can fire the Stunner through the internet now?

Yes, but that would be illegal, and I would get caught.  Besides, my boss finally made us dismantle it.

No, this has to be handled the hard way.  The way Ronald Reagan would have wanted it.

We have to beat the demons out of him.

DAMMIT. I was just putting a pinch of Cope in. Now it's all over the monitor.

[Doktor Howl]

The AmCon link is a good start.  It's by a conservative who explicity states Libertarianism is the Marxism of the Right.  Also, PM of goodies for you coming in, Dok.

Woot!  Thanks.

But I don't think Pickle thinks of himself as a conservative. 

But AmCon is right, for a multitude of reasons, starting with the inherent brutality of both systems, and ending with the fact that neither system actually works.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The AmCon link is a good start.  It's by a conservative who explicity states Libertarianism is the Marxism of the Right.  Also, PM of goodies for you coming in, Dok.

Woot!  Thanks.

But I don't think Pickle thinks of himself as a conservative. 

But AmCon is right, for a multitude of reasons, starting with the inherent brutality of both systems, and ending with the fact that neither system actually works.

No system actually works short of planetary suicide (which is covered by a political party as well).

[Cain]

Well, I don't either, but American Conservative has some exceptionally good writers, and generally accepts writers who don't toe to any ideological line very well. They have people of pretty much all stripes write for them, but especially "misfits" who don't fit easily into any ideological camp, which of course means they are often very good at seeing the hilarious inconsistencies and, as you say, "inherent brutality of both systems".

[Doktor Howl]

The AmCon link is a good start.  It's by a conservative who explicity states Libertarianism is the Marxism of the Right.  Also, PM of goodies for you coming in, Dok.

Woot!  Thanks.

But I don't think Pickle thinks of himself as a conservative. 

But AmCon is right, for a multitude of reasons, starting with the inherent brutality of both systems, and ending with the fact that neither system actually works.

No system actually works short of planetary suicide (which is covered by a political party as well).

Well, then, I guess we'd all better just kill ourselves, because only "impure" systems function well enough to improve human living standards.

Right?

[Cain]

The AmCon link is a good start.  It's by a conservative who explicity states Libertarianism is the Marxism of the Right.  Also, PM of goodies for you coming in, Dok.

Woot!  Thanks.

But I don't think Pickle thinks of himself as a conservative. 

But AmCon is right, for a multitude of reasons, starting with the inherent brutality of both systems, and ending with the fact that neither system actually works.

No system actually works short of planetary suicide (which is covered by a political party as well).

Even with that, I'd bet at least two people of the opposite sex would defect at the last minute.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

The AmCon link is a good start.  It's by a conservative who explicity states Libertarianism is the Marxism of the Right.  Also, PM of goodies for you coming in, Dok.

Woot!  Thanks.

But I don't think Pickle thinks of himself as a conservative. 

But AmCon is right, for a multitude of reasons, starting with the inherent brutality of both systems, and ending with the fact that neither system actually works.

No system actually works short of planetary suicide (which is covered by a political party as well).

Even with that, I'd bet at least two people of the opposite sex would defect at the last minute.

A very good point 

[Disco Pickle]

I can't read this whole thread because it's too full of herp derp.

I can't tell if Pickles is naive, stupid, or trolling.

The topic of this thread derailed pretty quickly, but on the subjects discussed, I think I made clear my positions.

Howl, I haven't advocated the Free Murrket once in this thread, and actually the subject was how we might best deal with the real issues that exist within our current regulated market, by deflating the currency in a controlled manner, rather than inflating it out of proportion to global and domestic realities.  I'm not disagreeing with you, and I've only ever bounced questions about a free(er) market in order to get feedback on what other people here think.  The libertopia doesn't exist, and the article Cain posted does a damn fine job of laying out why it would not.

I'm currently brushing up on some Hobbes and should have The Leviathan finished late this evening or tomorrow morning, depending on my work load.  

To address PoD's post from last night,

I forgot to address this..

what's to keep people from doing NOTHING and still receiving their "fair share" under this system?

Because humans are innately good and want to help each other, of course. No one WANTS to free-load.

There's an entire prison system full of con-artists and thieves that would, if they were being honest, tell you that this is not true.

technology plays a part in the advancement of any society.

Sure, but that's only if you want to advance.

I'm not sure I've heard anyone advocate for a static society that doesn't advance technologically..  except maybe the Amish.

I choose to do it because it's a satisfying field to me, and I take pride in creating something that benefits others.  I'm a fucking anomaly in your system.

Hey, that's great. You are the reason communism doesn't work. Non-point.

how do you account for the measure of time it takes to actually produce something, and the inevitable HUMAN animosity when people begin to realize that you can have your needs met just like "that guy who only works 40 hours" by just doing the bare minimum?

You assume that time matters too much. "I work 50-hours a week". Okay. if you choose to do a job, you don't have the right to complain that someone doing a different job doesn't have to work as long hours as you. What about the person doing backbreaking labor in the coal mine?  What about the person who is doing medical research? What about the person who is transporting goods cross-country? These people exist, because they must. They get the same share you do, yet you just draw all day.

Time, a persons time, has the value we agree to place on it with regard to it being used for labor.  This is usually settled between a worker and employer in our current system by a wage.  In the system you advocate, where currency does not exist and labor and thus, a person's time is all seen to be equal across the board, where you receive nothing more or less for doing only the bare minimum expected of you, there wouldn't actually BE anyone going above and beyond when everyone realized their needs would be met by doing just enough to get by without pissing everyone else off.

One of the fundamental objectives of Marxism is to remove interest, the factor of individual interest, and gain, from people's psychological motivations. Marx was preoccupied both with economic factors and with their repercussions on the spirit. If communism isn't interested in this too, it may be a method of distributing goods, but it will never be a revolutionary way of life."
— Che Guevara

Doesn't this system require the forceable removal of the rulers (bourgeois) from power, usually (at least, historically) executing them and their families?  How does that jive with your sense of humanism?  

Assuming that this COULD ever be implemented successfully, you'd be willing to live under a police state while it was enforced for several generations, suppressing inevitable dissent and nostalgia for the old way of life, until the memory of that old way was bred out of the population and they no longer rose up against the state?

and I thought libertarians believed in a utopia.

I'm not sure if this is lol worthy, or if it shows that your grasp of political theory isn't quite as strong as you suggest.

NOTHING.  That's why it doesn't work.

Quiet, you.  

Also, for a Hobbesian, you'd make a crappy discordian.  Unless it's cognitive dissonance.  Wasn't his idea for government a way to remove or minimize discord and rebellion against the current order imposed by the state through collective consent, and punishment of those who fostered discord?

[Disco Pickle]

nested quote fail all over that post.  I'll fix it after lunch..  must eat.

[Doktor Howl]

nested quote fail all over that post.  I'll fix it after lunch..  must eat.

Did you EARN that lunch?

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I didn't I hung out on PD.com and wasted my company's time ... just like every day 

[Adios]

nested quote fail all over that post.  I'll fix it after lunch..  must eat.

Did you EARN that lunch?

Got my chew in before clicking this time.

[Doktor Howl]

I didn't I hung out on PD.com and wasted my company's time ... just like every day 

Same here.  I am a living example of why many "logical" systems fail.

[Elder Iptuous]

I got you beat, Dok.   I'm doing it on the tax payer's dime!