an argument for a deflationary policy in the You Ess of Heeeeey

[Jasper]

Memes, yeah.  I call them narratives.  We seem to have little stories about how things work.  They are the wrong stories.

Its funny, but lately I've noticed Yudowsky, Terry Pratchett and Doloras (of the Chaos Marxism blog) all have almost the exactly the same take on stories:

Stories don't tell us how the world work, but they tell us how people think the world should work.  You can use that to tell people better stories.

Of course, with Pratchett, this (along with "headology") is how the witches win practically all their battles.

You read Science of Discworld?  He did a whole book of his thoughts on the matter.

[Cain]

Memes, yeah.  I call them narratives.  We seem to have little stories about how things work.  They are the wrong stories.

Its funny, but lately I've noticed Yudowsky, Terry Pratchett and Doloras (of the Chaos Marxism blog) all have almost the exactly the same take on stories:

Stories don't tell us how the world work, but they tell us how people think the world should work.  You can use that to tell people better stories.

Of course, with Pratchett, this (along with "headology") is how the witches win practically all their battles.

You read Science of Discworld?  He did a whole book of his thoughts on the matter.

I have the first two Science of the Discworld books, but it's been a while since I've read them.  At least five years or so.  But yeah, I do remember that being a rather major theme.

[Jasper]

Yeah.  Really interesting ideas.  Probably more substantial than a comedy/fantasy novel has any right to be.

[Cain]

Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen seem to merit more investigation as well.  I know Stewart narrated some physics documentaries which were far more interesting than usual.

[Jasper]

As far as Jack goes, here's a brief summary of his writings:

http://www-users.cs.york.ac.uk/susan/bib/nf/c/jackcohn.htm

[Disco Pickle]

He is after all a Doktor

And, having looked around, I think that people operating via bad memes seems to be the number one problem with the country, and probably the world.

ETA:  Horrorology idea.

Eric Berne called them scripts when they become a way of life for a person, and games were extensions of those scripts that people put into their interactions with other humans in order elicit a certain wanted response from the other people.

I think we call that trolling now.  Even when it's not deliberate. 

This would make an interesting subject to update for the internet age. Transactional Analysis in the Internet age.  I'll give it some thought.

I'm with you Dok. 

[Doktor Howl]

He is after all a Doktor

And, having looked around, I think that people operating via bad memes seems to be the number one problem with the country, and probably the world.

ETA:  Horrorology idea.

Eric Berne called them scripts when they become a way of life for a person, and games were extensions of those scripts that people put into their interactions with other humans in order elicit a certain wanted response from the other people.

I think we call that trolling now.  Even when it's not deliberate. 

This would make an interesting subject to update for the internet age. Transactional Analysis in the Internet age.  I'll give it some thought.

I'm with you Dok. 

I've moved that part of the conversation down to Horrorology.

[Phox]

that's what I was likely getting to, but I wanted to hear her answer. 

Fixed.

Eris fucking Discordia, that's getting annoying.

Wear a skirt, show your bewbs or STFU. 
[/quote

[Phox]

To address PoD's post from last night,

Pho. Or Dawn. Please do not call me PoD. It annoys me to no end.

There's an entire prison system full of con-artists and thieves that would, if they were being honest, tell you that this is not true.

See the end.

I'm not sure I've heard anyone advocate for a static society that doesn't advance technologically..  except maybe the Amish.

Not quite. Communism works best in a pre-industrial society. Non-essential (read: necessary to sustain life) goods are a complete waste of time and resources. 

Time, a persons time, has the value we agree to place on it with regard to it being used for labor.  This is usually settled between a worker and employer in our current system by a wage.  In the system you advocate, where currency does not exist and labor and thus, a person's time is all seen to be equal across the board, where you receive nothing more or less for doing only the bare minimum expected of you, there wouldn't actually BE anyone going above and beyond when everyone realized their needs would be met by doing just enough to get by without pissing everyone else off.

One of the fundamental objectives of Marxism is to remove interest, the factor of individual interest, and gain, from people's psychological motivations. Marx was preoccupied both with economic factors and with their repercussions on the spirit. If communism isn't interested in this too, it may be a method of distributing goods, but it will never be a revolutionary way of life."
— Che Guevara

Wrong, time is only as valuable as society makes it. In our current system, we are socialized into believing that "time=$". Why does anyone "need" more than enough to get by? Because we live in a materialistic culture. If we lived in a true communism, enough would be *gasp* enough.

Side note: Don't quote El Che if you want to be taken seriously in a discussion about Communism. El Che was far worse for Cuba than Castro ever was. 

Doesn't this system require the forceable removal of the rulers (bourgeois) from power, usually (at least, historically) executing them and their families?  How does that jive with your sense of humanism?  

Historically yes, theoretically no. And even if it is, sacrifices must be the greater good. At least I'm not whipping out Plato's Republic and advocating that everyone over the age of 10 be killed so that we can instill the young 'uns with our propaganda.

Assuming that this COULD ever be implemented successfully, you'd be willing to live under a police state while it was enforced for several generations, suppressing inevitable dissent and nostalgia for the old way of life, until the memory of that old way was bred out of the population and they no longer rose up against the state?

Where's this police state BS coming from? Who said that?

Also, for a Hobbesian, you'd make a crappy discordian.  Unless it's cognitive dissonance.  Wasn't his idea for government a way to remove or minimize discord and rebellion against the current order imposed by the state through collective consent, and punishment of those who fostered discord?

No, on both accounts. I think you REALLY need to go read Hobbes again.

[Cain]

Gah, this is like my PoliSci 101 seminars, except I can't doodle pictures of my lecturer in Mussolini style poses in the corner of my notebook then go hit on the cute chick three seats to the left and one forward in the coffee shop afterwards.

[Phox]

Gah, this is like my PoliSci 101 seminars, except I can't doodle pictures of my lecturer in Mussolini style poses in the corner of my notebook then go hit on the cute chick three seats to the left and one forward in the coffee shop afterwards.

This is precisely the reason I got out of Poli Sci. 

[Don Coyote]

Gah, this is like my PoliSci 101 seminars, except I can't doodle pictures of my lecturer in Mussolini style poses in the corner of my notebook then go hit on the cute chick three seats to the left and one forward in the coffee shop afterwards.

This is precisely the reason I got out of Poli Sci. 

Your lecturers looked liek Mussolini? Or the lack of cute girls to ask out?

[Phox]

Gah, this is like my PoliSci 101 seminars, except I can't doodle pictures of my lecturer in Mussolini style poses in the corner of my notebook then go hit on the cute chick three seats to the left and one forward in the coffee shop afterwards.

This is precisely the reason I got out of Poli Sci. 

Your lecturers looked liek Mussolini? Or the lack of cute girls to ask out?

Both.

[Doloras LaPicho]

Its funny, but lately I've noticed Yudowsky, Terry Pratchett and Doloras (of the Chaos Marxism blog) all have almost the exactly the same take on stories:

Stories don't tell us how the world work, but they tell us how people think the world should work.  You can use that to tell people better stories.

Of course, with Pratchett, this (along with "headology") is how the witches win practically all their battles.

I actually was Magrat Garlick as a teenager, but now I think I'm Esme Weatherwax forty years early.

[Phox]

Where is Pickles? I miss him in this thread.