REEFER MADNESS!!!!!!

[East Coast Hustle]

That the drug is illegal incurs no significant damage to society.  How the law is enforced can incur costs to communities.  As I've stated countless times.  People shouldn't be in prison for simple possession, and percentage wise, they aren't.  I would be curious about the circumstances of those who are in state prison for marijuana possession.  My suspicion is that it is concentrated in certain states that have particularily draconian sentencing guidelines.  Those should be changed.  People should not be in prison for simple possession. 

But I have to point out again it is not the picture that is typically painted from those who support legalization.  The prisons are NOT bursting at the seams with people who are in for simple possession.  The majority of people in prison for marijuana-related offenses had other charges or were trafficking the drugs. 

I think one things cartels might do under legalization is adopt a model that involves the diversion of medical marijuana.  But I think the other thing they certainly would do is develop stronger product than what the government allows.  Now, yes, this is more often than not going to be going to your hardcore MJ users.  But that, along with the illegal Rx trade and other illicit substances, I think, would be more than enough to keep them afloat.  I mean, criminals are good at being criminals.  They will find a way to survive.   

Dude, I'm not saying this to be a prick, but you actually don't have even the faintest idea what you're talking about. I mean, it appears as though you literally know NOTHING about the substance itself. I'm sure what you think you know came from something with an official letterhead, but it's wrong. Everyone who has ever been involved in the marijuana industry could tell you that, and explain it in detail. I'm guessing you're not interested in being educated about the actual substance you work so hard to prevent the use of in kids (those super ghetto kids in those poverty-stricken neighborhoods of Lewiston Friggin' MAINE), but if I'm wrong feel free to shoot me a line. I'll even break it down in PM if you like, so as not to attract the idiot pothead contingency like moths to flames. But seriously, you are working with flat-out wrong information.

[Disco Pickle]

I haven't dug through all 40 pages of this thread to see if this has been mentioned yet, so be gentle if it has, but one of the best arguments for decriminalization IMO is that the laws are almost completely ineffectual at stemming the supply of drugs.  I can go to a city I've never visited before and by doing some bar hopping and making social with patrons, I could probably score pot within a few hours, and that's if I'm not trying very hard.  It's fucking EVERYWHERE, it grows everywhere, and it's never going away.  I firmly believe the money spent on enforcement, litigation and eradication would be better spent on education and treatment for drugs with more serious detrimental effects to individuals and society.

It's a war that cannot be won in the way it's currently being waged.  

It's trite, but true: You can't legislate saving people from themselves.

all of that being my opinion, I will say that I completely respect what you do and why you do it.  My sister and I grew up witnessing the effects of long term drug use first hand.  We made it out and are free of any debilitating addictions ourselves, but that specter of repeating our parents mistakes lingered for a good part of our 20's.  And while we did make it out, we're most certainly the exception, not the rule.   If even one family can be helped to not have to endure that, then you've made a difference in my eyes.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

It's trite, but true: You can't legislate saving people from themselves.

Interesting, mind if I yoink and play with this?

[BabylonHoruv]

That the drug is illegal incurs no significant damage to society.  How the law is enforced can incur costs to communities.  As I've stated countless times.  People shouldn't be in prison for simple possession, and percentage wise, they aren't.  I would be curious about the circumstances of those who are in state prison for marijuana possession.  My suspicion is that it is concentrated in certain states that have particularily draconian sentencing guidelines.  Those should be changed.  People should not be in prison for simple possession. 

But I have to point out again it is not the picture that is typically painted from those who support legalization.  The prisons are NOT bursting at the seams with people who are in for simple possession.  The majority of people in prison for marijuana-related offenses had other charges or were trafficking the drugs. 

I think one things cartels might do under legalization is adopt a model that involves the diversion of medical marijuana.  But I think the other thing they certainly would do is develop stronger product than what the government allows.  Now, yes, this is more often than not going to be going to your hardcore MJ users.  But that, along with the illegal Rx trade and other illicit substances, I think, would be more than enough to keep them afloat.  I mean, criminals are good at being criminals.  They will find a way to survive.   

I can't see this being an issue.  Assuming legalization along the lines of alcohol, there are some potencies of alcohol that are illegal in most states, anything above 75.5% in fact.  There are a few moonshiners in a few places who do provide stronger alcohol than that, but organized crime has nothing to do with it, and they used to dominate the alcohol market entirely.

So long as the allowed level of THC was along the line of mid level hydroponic as opposed to dirt weed I can't see anyone taking the risk involved with dealing with the black market when they could get their weed at a local store.

[Disco Pickle]

It's trite, but true: You can't legislate saving people from themselves.

Interesting, mind if I yoink and play with this?

it isn't mine, I read it somewhere some years ago, discussing this same subject, so feel free.

[Succulent Plant]

That the drug is illegal incurs no significant damage to society.  How the law is enforced can incur costs to communities.  As I've stated countless times.  People shouldn't be in prison for simple possession, and percentage wise, they aren't.  I would be curious about the circumstances of those who are in state prison for marijuana possession.  My suspicion is that it is concentrated in certain states that have particularily draconian sentencing guidelines.  Those should be changed.  People should not be in prison for simple possession. 

But I have to point out again it is not the picture that is typically painted from those who support legalization.  The prisons are NOT bursting at the seams with people who are in for simple possession.  The majority of people in prison for marijuana-related offenses had other charges or were trafficking the drugs. 

I think one things cartels might do under legalization is adopt a model that involves the diversion of medical marijuana.  But I think the other thing they certainly would do is develop stronger product than what the government allows.  Now, yes, this is more often than not going to be going to your hardcore MJ users.  But that, along with the illegal Rx trade and other illicit substances, I think, would be more than enough to keep them afloat.  I mean, criminals are good at being criminals.  They will find a way to survive.   

I can't see this being an issue.  Assuming legalization along the lines of alcohol, there are some potencies of alcohol that are illegal in most states, anything above 75.5% in fact.  There are a few moonshiners in a few places who do provide stronger alcohol than that, but organized crime has nothing to do with it, and they used to dominate the alcohol market entirely.

So long as the allowed level of THC was along the line of mid level hydroponic as opposed to dirt weed I can't see anyone taking the risk involved with dealing with the black market when they could get their weed at a local store.

Agree with this.

[AFK]

That the drug is illegal incurs no significant damage to society.  How the law is enforced can incur costs to communities.  As I've stated countless times.  People shouldn't be in prison for simple possession, and percentage wise, they aren't.  I would be curious about the circumstances of those who are in state prison for marijuana possession.  My suspicion is that it is concentrated in certain states that have particularily draconian sentencing guidelines.  Those should be changed.  People should not be in prison for simple possession.  

But I have to point out again it is not the picture that is typically painted from those who support legalization.  The prisons are NOT bursting at the seams with people who are in for simple possession.  The majority of people in prison for marijuana-related offenses had other charges or were trafficking the drugs.  

I think one things cartels might do under legalization is adopt a model that involves the diversion of medical marijuana.  But I think the other thing they certainly would do is develop stronger product than what the government allows.  Now, yes, this is more often than not going to be going to your hardcore MJ users.  But that, along with the illegal Rx trade and other illicit substances, I think, would be more than enough to keep them afloat.  I mean, criminals are good at being criminals.  They will find a way to survive.    

Dude, I'm not saying this to be a prick, but you actually don't have even the faintest idea what you're talking about. I mean, it appears as though you literally know NOTHING about the substance itself. I'm sure what you think you know came from something with an official letterhead, but it's wrong. Everyone who has ever been involved in the marijuana industry could tell you that, and explain it in detail. I'm guessing you're not interested in being educated about the actual substance you work so hard to prevent the use of in kids (those super ghetto kids in those poverty-stricken neighborhoods of Lewiston Friggin' MAINE), but if I'm wrong feel free to shoot me a line. I'll even break it down in PM if you like, so as not to attract the idiot pothead contingency like moths to flames. But seriously, you are working with flat-out wrong information.

My previous response involved way more thought and effort than was warranted. 

[AFK]

That the drug is illegal incurs no significant damage to society.  How the law is enforced can incur costs to communities.  As I've stated countless times.  People shouldn't be in prison for simple possession, and percentage wise, they aren't.  I would be curious about the circumstances of those who are in state prison for marijuana possession.  My suspicion is that it is concentrated in certain states that have particularily draconian sentencing guidelines.  Those should be changed.  People should not be in prison for simple possession. 

But I have to point out again it is not the picture that is typically painted from those who support legalization.  The prisons are NOT bursting at the seams with people who are in for simple possession.  The majority of people in prison for marijuana-related offenses had other charges or were trafficking the drugs. 

I think one things cartels might do under legalization is adopt a model that involves the diversion of medical marijuana.  But I think the other thing they certainly would do is develop stronger product than what the government allows.  Now, yes, this is more often than not going to be going to your hardcore MJ users.  But that, along with the illegal Rx trade and other illicit substances, I think, would be more than enough to keep them afloat.  I mean, criminals are good at being criminals.  They will find a way to survive.   

I can't see this being an issue.  Assuming legalization along the lines of alcohol, there are some potencies of alcohol that are illegal in most states, anything above 75.5% in fact.  There are a few moonshiners in a few places who do provide stronger alcohol than that, but organized crime has nothing to do with it, and they used to dominate the alcohol market entirely.

So long as the allowed level of THC was along the line of mid level hydroponic as opposed to dirt weed I can't see anyone taking the risk involved with dealing with the black market when they could get their weed at a local store.

Perhaps.  But even if what you say played out, as I've explained, the cartels would still be alive and well. 

[Elder Iptuous]

is anybody advancing the argument that legalizing pot will destroy the cartels?

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

is anybody advancing the argument that legalizing pot will destroy the cartels?

I'm a bit confused now myself.

[AFK]

is anybody advancing the argument that legalizing pot will destroy the cartels?

It was an argument put out earlier in this thread and has come up in past threads.  That we should legalize marijuana because of all the violence it causes and to shut down the black market.  But now it seems we're all on the same page on that.  Progress!

[Elder Iptuous]

is anybody advancing the argument that legalizing pot will destroy the cartels?

It was an argument put out earlier in this thread and has come up in past threads.  That we should legalize marijuana because of all the violence it causes and to shut down the black market.  But now it seems we're all on the same page on that.  Progress!

i know people have advanced that it adds a market for the cartels, and all the concomitant violence that goes with that (i believe you agreed with this, no?), but as far as destroying the cartels, i believe we are all on the same page, in that it would be delusional to expect that.  i don't think anybody is saying that.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

I honestly have to say I seriously doubt that marajuana is really the cartel's cash crop. 

[Elder Iptuous]

I honestly have to say I seriously doubt that marajuana is really the cartel's cash crop.  

From some WaPo article:

While the trafficking of cocaine, heroin and methamphetamine is the main focus of U.S. law enforcement, it is marijuana that has long provided most of the revenue for Mexican drug cartels. More than 60 percent of the cartels' revenue -- $8.6 billion out of $13.8 billion in 2006 -- came from U.S. marijuana sales, according to the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/06/AR2009100603847.html


ETA: i honestly had no idea whether it was a sizable portion of their revenue myself before googling it...

[E.O.T.]

...
  But I think the other thing they certainly would do is develop stronger product than what the government allows.  Now, yes, this is more often than not going to be going to your hardcore MJ users. 
...

good grief!  stronger than the stuff we have now?  the really nice buds are literally dripping with resin!
this just doesn't make much sense to me.  I have never met anyone that has complained that they just couldn't find strong enough marijuana anymore to get them the buzz they seek.  furthermore, the strongest stuff i've seen is cultivated by individuals that care for a small group of plants rather than the big operations.

I AGREE