Saudi Prince on trial for "sexual" killing of servant

[Jenne]

I will admit this is pure speculation on my part, but the Afghan War may be causing some interesting price fluctuations.

Afghanistan's #1 export still seems to be heroin, from what I hear...the Talibs tried to make heroin more scarce when they were in power.  The war changed all that, they then in order to spite the US/UN occupation, started INCITING more farmers to turn a profit for their purposes and sow more poppy fields.

Turns out they were actually doing that to drive up the prices, while claiming piety was the reason.

As their later conduct has shown, and as you've mentioned, they definitely have no problems with dealing it now.

Yup.  They are strangely "pragmatic" when there's a "holy cause."

[BadBeast]

From what I understand, the British Govt has been buying up the Poppy, in an attempt to keep the Tribesmen onside. When the War started, there was an influx of Nigerian Heroin to fill the vacuum left by the effect of the War. Yet somehow the Afghan Heroin is now as prevalent as ever. (Better the Devil you know)  The Taliban have no qualms about the sale of opium to the west. It used to get processed into Heroin in Turkey, but with Turkey's aspirations to join the EU, this practice has had to be minimised, to toe the EU line. Now, processing has moved back across the border into Afghanistan, so now they can offer the real product to their market, for a greater price, (Which will be good for the post-war Afghan economy) than they could, just for the raw material. If moral arguments are left to one side when considering the Afghan Poppy, simpler economic factors can be addressed, and accounted for. Opium/Heroin is one of the only Markets there is, where the producer doesn't need to go and seek out a Market, the Market finds the producer. The production of the product, is driven by the demand. If the demand is not met from Afghanistan, (whose whole economy is based on Poppy) it will be met by the new African Countries who are just waiting for an opportunity. (Nigeria, Somalia, Congo, Sudan) This will destabilise Africa even more, and disrupt any post War economic improvement in Afghanistan. The whole War out there is being fought over Opium anyway, no matter what the coalition Governments say. It's the only viable resource of export, there is in Afghanistan. To the winner, the spoils! The only other thing of value to anyone else out there, is Goats. And no-one ever went to War over Goats!

[Cain]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

[BadBeast]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

[Don Coyote]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

They are allied with us because we pay them. The depressing things I have read in the Army Knowledge Online newsfeed.

[Jenne]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

They are allied with us because we pay them. The depressing things I have read in the Army Knowledge Online newsfeed.

Considering BRIBERY is equal to 25% of Afghanistan's "official" GDP, who is surprised?

[Cain]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

They are allied with us because we pay them. The depressing things I have read in the Army Knowledge Online newsfeed.

Also because allying with the US means allying with Karzai, who is not only weak enough to let them continue on drug dealing, but who is implicated in it himself, through his brother.

[Doktor Howl]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

They are allied with us because we pay them. The depressing things I have read in the Army Knowledge Online newsfeed.

Considering BRIBERY is 25% of Afghanistan's "official" GDP, who is surprised?

At least they're honest about their corruption.  Unlike, say, us.

[Jenne]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

They are allied with us because we pay them. The depressing things I have read in the Army Knowledge Online newsfeed.

Also because allying with the US means allying with Karzai, who is not only weak enough to let them continue on drug dealing, but who is implicated in it himself, through his brother.

...weak, or savvy?  I'm thinking Karzai's cut from the same cloth that Pervez Musharref is--speaking out of both sides of his mouth to necessarily appease those he lives WITH and those who control his purse strings and his prestige.

[Jenne]

Also the Taliban are only responsible for roughly 10% of all Afghan heroin.  Most of it is actually being sold by our warlord "allies".

Who are only Allied to us, because our Army have been driving the Taliban away from the main production areas, and consolidating their power base. Also, I expect there is an unspoken guarantee of post War business being put their way.

They are allied with us because we pay them. The depressing things I have read in the Army Knowledge Online newsfeed.

Considering BRIBERY is 25% of Afghanistan's "official" GDP, who is surprised?

At least they're honest about their corruption.  Unlike, say, us.

Everyone's "honest" about it over there...that is to say, everyone expects it, and no one does anything to stop it.  But I wouldn't compare our government over HERE to theirs over THERE, at any point in time.  We don't bribe our post office workers to give us the stamps we pay them for...they have to.  Our corruption's pretty low at the local level, for ourselves.

For OVER THERE, hell yes, we are playing ever much as deep a game as the Afghans themselves--well, the Afghans in power, that is.

[Cain]

Given his power seems to extend about three miles outside of Kabul...weak.  Musharraff at least had a real army to command, most Afghan officers are Tajik and will stab that Pashtun boy in the back the minute it becomes more useful than leaving him alive.

[Jenne]

Given his power seems to extend about three miles outside of Kabul...weak.  Musharraff at least had a real army to command, most Afghan officers are Tajik and will stab that Pashtun boy in the back the minute it becomes more useful than leaving him alive.

Perhaps...I think the tribal/cultural alliances are indeed heavily played out in Afghan politics, but plenty of Tajiks are shrewd enough to know the sinkhole getting rid of Karzai would create would put Afghanistan that much further back from getting out of the uholy mess it's in...if that is ever going to happen, that is.

[Cain]

Oh, it wont happen while the US is still present in the country.  But after the troops leave, watch as Karzai's frantic attempts to gain economic and military clout flounder, and he becomes less and less useful.  As US economic woes get worse, the US wont be able to support Karzai in the way they are doing now, and those officers will be going without pay (Afghan Army is too large for the size of it's economy already...and still doesn't have the numbers, skill or training to defeat the Taliban).  Unpaid soldiers, from a different ethnic background to the leader, in an unstable, resource rich country...that's Coup Scenario 101, right there, right next to a "a former coup leader leaves the country on a foreign visit and a former mid-level officer launches a military takeover".

[Jenne]

Well, it's barely worth their lives to be in the Afghan Army if they aren't going to be paid for it...I can see that far, at least.  Those fuckers get death threats from the villages all the fucking time.

However, I agree Karzai's up a tree without the US, which is why his rebukes of the US are always so mild-mannered and like so much braying of a donkey, to borrow my husband's countrymen's saying, rather than anything of any substance (again, just like Musharref, in my opinion).

I really doubt Karzai will last out till the US and UN are gone.  I really think the dude will save his own ass and skidaddle as soon as the last tank goes out through the Hindu Kush.

[BabylonHoruv]

From what I saw, in the Independent not long ago, there are roughly 240,000 crack and heroin users.

Today, Crack is being marketed, with Heroin by dealers who offer a £20 rock of Crack, free with every eighth of an ounce of Heroin. 

Seriously?
They must be selling that Heroin out for a huge profit to just being giving crack away... unless they're going to start charging after they've got people hooked.

You haven't heard of the "first hit's free" marketing strategy?  Of course they intend to start charging once people are hooked.