Videogames as Interactive Art, the "Death of Linearity"

[Telarus]

This is the stuff I'm studying, and i think that these are some of the people really pushing the boundaries of what we usually think of as "Narrative".

Del Toro Defends Video Games As Art, Accusing Detractors Of Being 'Out Of Touch'

The film director Guillermo Del Toro, best known for his fairtytale movie Pan's Labyrinth and film adaptation of Hell Boy publicly defended video games as being an "artform" at a book reading this week.

"Video games are the comic books of our time," said Del Toro at a book reading in the U.S., currently available to view on YouTube. "It's a medium that gains no respect among the intelligentsia. They say, 'Oh, video games...' And most people that complain about video games have never fucking played them."

"Video games have proven to be incredibly immersive experiences, and not every game is a shooter game," the director continued. "You will see that they are an art form and anyone saying differently is a little out of touch, because they are an art form."

"Like the way they say, 'Horror movies, they make the kids delinquent! Horror comics, they make the kids criminal!' Now it's video games," he added. "It's all bulls**t."

At the book reading event the director spoke of his love for first person shooter games, despite his "entirely anti-war" politics. He cited ICO and Shadow of the Colossus, Gadget: Invention and Marathon as "masterpieces" and described BioShock as having "one of the most fully-realised worlds in any medium".

Del Toro was responding to a question about the forthcoming "Lovecraftian" video game he recently announced on MTV News. Del Toro told MTV the project's massive scale would necessitate a three-year development schedule, with the game hitting store shelves in 2013 in the "best case scenario."

Speaking at the book reading event, Del Toro promised the audience a "really big, revolutionary, very different game". He described the project as "a long-term commitment", and an idea he's been trying to green-light for the last "three or four" years.

"I expect and hope to create what I would like to see in a video game," he said. "The one thing I can say [about my movies] is that I'm doing them because no-one else is doing them. And the video game is the same thing: I want to do that video game in a way that no one else is doing."

The Death Of Linearity?

This one is a bit long, so you'll have to read it @ Gamasutra.

I'm posting during a break in my Intro to Editing class, so I'll come back and comment later.

[Jasper]

Some video games aren't respectable art, but they're still art.

The opinion of games as art is gaining ground.  I've played games that are more art than game.  Ever played Machinarium or the Neverhood?

[Cramulus]

this is a very interesting and experimental time for video games

When I was playing Mass Effect, I kept thinking, "wow this is like being the main character of a really good science fiction novel."

and that struck me as weird because isn't that what all games are aiming at? But this one actually did it!


Do you read http://playthisthing.com/ ? they review a lot of indie and arthaus games. You occasionally see some really great ideas being expressed through games... so many people designing "art games" tend to disregard good gameplay though, that always bugged me.

[Cuddlefish]

Especially now with games like LittlebigPlanet, where the game (as a piece of art) is also a medium for being creative.

Here, have example: I made these (the games, not the video) with the game mentioned above.

And completely agreed on comments concerning Mass-Effect and Bio-Shock.

[Triple Zero]

It made me wonder, is there like a very simple type of (platform? rpg?) game that involves a storyline? And I mean very simple, in the sense that it's super easy to implement (no way I'm ever touching big-ass gamedev projects hehe). Cause I thought--admitting I know nearly nothing of game-design theory--it might be interesting to figure out automatic storyline generation. Just the minimal thing that could possibly work, it will be immensely dumb, but should be different every time you play it, sort of?

What games really work with randomly generated levels btw? There must be quite a few, I know Nethack is a classic that does it (afaik, never played it) and I remember that Worms also does it (though it has no storyline, just battles).

Cause you know me, I love randomly generating stuff

Hey and, unrelated, how about we sort of rename+repurpose the RPG subforum to be about generic games? Given that it's now used for one or two forum-roleplaying threads and the occasional (mostly Tabletop) RPG news, I suppose it's a good thing to broaden it up a little and give it some more scope. Plus "games", "gameplay" and "game theory" seem to be general topics multiple people on this board are interested in, as well I think playing games has an inherent connection with Discordia, in a sense. Good idea? Great idea? Brilliant idea?

[Cain]

The idea that someone can think video games aren't art absolutely confuses me.  It would seem self-evident that at the very least some are.  Some, like the Baldur's Gate franchise, are better pieces of art as video games than they are as books (YMMV, but in this particular case, probably wont).

And games have potential well beyond certain other mediums, like traditional cinema.  You can tell a far more complex, lengthy and less constrained (by censors, by special effects costs etc) story than most major studios can, and with an amazingly smaller budget.

[Cramulus]

It made me wonder, is there like a very simple type of (platform? rpg?) game that involves a storyline? And I mean very simple, in the sense that it's super easy to implement (no way I'm ever touching big-ass gamedev projects hehe).

there are an awful lot of "literary" games, generally bound to be text adventures

not really up my alley - you can do a lot with text adventure games, but I feel like they're really hard pressed to engage you the way a good game will.

I'm not sure that I'd be interested in playing a randomly generated story game - I think stories lose something if you basically boil them down to interchangable parts and have a computer assemble them.


here are some really short, story oriented, arty games (from Cram's Game Corner):

I Fell in Love with the Majesty of Colors

Play Now

This is a short flash game. The story takes about three minutes, and has five different endings. You play a sea monster with bulging red eyes and a long grasping tentacle. The way the story plays out depends on how you interact with the characters that sail above you.

I've gotten 3 out of 5 endings so far. All Five Endings  

Don't Look Back
Don't Look Back is a short, simple sidescrolling platformer. You control a pudgy pixelated blob who is mourning for his lost love from the underworld. The whole game is pretty quick. Shouldn't take more than 15-20 minutes to beat.

Here's why I think this game is fun:

• quick and simple. The only controls are jump and shoot. None of the challenges are so frustrating that you'll find yourself stuck on the same screen for an hour.
• Soundtrack - a swelling, evocative orchestral arrangement. Unusual for a lowbit chipgame!
  
• allusion to greek mythology. If you're familliar with the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, you already know the game's story. Orpheus must guide his love out of the underworld, but if he looks back at her even once, she will be [/s]turned into a pillar of salt[/s] stuck in the underworld forever. They do a great job of capturing that with this simple game. Little bit of a twist in the ending, too.

play now

http://ludomancy.com/games/today.html


quick flash game based on making shifts in the game's narrative

Pretty. Creative. Can be beaten in 10 minutes.

file this one under "WTF?"



to be honest, I haven't played it. But the concept is so weird I have to share. I'll post the PlayThisGame blog review.




The Shivah

Rabbi Stone has a crisis of faith. When was the last time you heard a game described in remotely similar terms?

Shivah is the Jewish mourning ritual. For a week after a family member's death, the family stays at home, receiving visitors, and mourning the deceased.

Rabbi Stone, this game's protagonist, leads a small and declining congregation on the Lower East Side. He receives word that a somewhat disreputable former congregant has died, and left his small estate to the synagogue. Though he himself is close to losing faith in God, he views it as his duty to investigate, and perhaps to comfort whatever family members this man may have as they sit Shivah.

Download: http://s3.amazonaws.com/manifestogames/1823/Shivah_Demo_setup.exe





WHY DID SOMEONE MAKE MOURNING FOR THE DEAD INTO A VIDEO GAME???

[Eater of Clowns]

I'd play a video game developed by Guillermo del Toro in a heartbeat.

Tycho on Penny Arcade had a really good point on video games as art.  Well, a series of them, but basically what he said was if a bunch of people who are artists come together to create something, how can that thing be anything but art?

[Cramulus]

Hummingbird Mind:

http://cardboardcomputer.com/games/hummingbird-mind/

"Hummingbird Mind is a short visual novel / interactive story about distraction, daydreaming, and working from home."

         review

[Cain]

I'd play a video game developed by Guillermo del Toro in a heartbeat.

Damn right.  He's co-written a couple of horror books as well, which I bought because...well, I liked his movies.  Haven't read them yet though.

[Triple Zero]

It made me wonder, is there like a very simple type of (platform? rpg?) game that involves a storyline? And I mean very simple, in the sense that it's super easy to implement (no way I'm ever touching big-ass gamedev projects hehe).

there are an awful lot of "literary" games, generally bound to be text adventures

not really up my alley - you can do a lot with text adventure games, but I feel like they're really hard pressed to engage you the way a good game will.

Yeah that's why I said platform, cause even if they suck you still get to jump around

I'm not sure that I'd be interested in playing a randomly generated story game - I think stories lose something if you basically boil them down to interchangable parts and have a computer assemble them.

yeah, even if they're pretty good, they're still a bit like cut-ups. you may randomly generate them, but they only come alive when you put in the imagination to make them. and if you generate a lot of them, that could take more effort than is fun.

i wasnt just planning on making interchangeable parts though.

i dunno maybe it'd be easier to start out generating really really short stories (though more like 3-5 paragraphs than 3 sentences).

---

so what do you guys think about repurposing the RPG forum for general talk about games and game theory?

[Requia ☣]

It made me wonder, is there like a very simple type of (platform? rpg?) game that involves a storyline? And I mean very simple, in the sense that it's super easy to implement (no way I'm ever touching big-ass gamedev projects hehe). Cause I thought--admitting I know nearly nothing of game-design theory--it might be interesting to figure out automatic storyline generation. Just the minimal thing that could possibly work, it will be immensely dumb, but should be different every time you play it, sort of?

What games really work with randomly generated levels btw? There must be quite a few, I know Nethack is a classic that does it (afaik, never played it) and I remember that Worms also does it (though it has no storyline, just battles).

Cause you know me, I love randomly generating stuff

Hey and, unrelated, how about we sort of rename+repurpose the RPG subforum to be about generic games? Given that it's now used for one or two forum-roleplaying threads and the occasional (mostly Tabletop) RPG news, I suppose it's a good thing to broaden it up a little and give it some more scope. Plus "games", "gameplay" and "game theory" seem to be general topics multiple people on this board are interested in, as well I think playing games has an inherent connection with Discordia, in a sense. Good idea? Great idea? Brilliant idea?

RPGs can be pretty simple in programing if you don't try for the latest and greatest techniques.  iirc there are programs meant for throwing together games with engines similar to the old JRPGs.  Thing is, even when all the art and engine programming are done (such as with games that are mods of existing games), just doing the scripting for a game of any real length takes time.

For a really good totally random game look at Minecrafter survival alpha.  Though that lacks any kind of plot (so far).

I like the general gaming forum idea.

[Rumckle]

What games really work with randomly generated levels btw? There must be quite a few, I know Nethack is a classic that does it (afaik, never played it) and I remember that Worms also does it (though it has no storyline, just battles).

Worms did have a single player story (or at least the later worms games did, I never played the first 2), but it was just text in between normal battles.


Also, what Cram said, the simplest games would be a text based RPGs, little more than a choose your own adventure story.


Mario had a story line (a very simple one), but that story line could be easily changed, and randomised. You could possibly even randomise the levels, ie divide each level up into 4-5 segments, and then have a bunch of options for each segment.

Randomising the story of a simple game like that wouldn't be too hard, but if you randomise the gameplay you may screw up the difficulty curve.

[Roaring Biscuit!]

minecraft has randomly generated terrain etc.  check it out



edd

[Cain]

It made me wonder, is there like a very simple type of (platform? rpg?) game that involves a storyline? And I mean very simple, in the sense that it's super easy to implement (no way I'm ever touching big-ass gamedev projects hehe). Cause I thought--admitting I know nearly nothing of game-design theory--it might be interesting to figure out automatic storyline generation. Just the minimal thing that could possibly work, it will be immensely dumb, but should be different every time you play it, sort of?

What games really work with randomly generated levels btw? There must be quite a few, I know Nethack is a classic that does it (afaik, never played it) and I remember that Worms also does it (though it has no storyline, just battles).

Cause you know me, I love randomly generating stuff

Hey and, unrelated, how about we sort of rename+repurpose the RPG subforum to be about generic games? Given that it's now used for one or two forum-roleplaying threads and the occasional (mostly Tabletop) RPG news, I suppose it's a good thing to broaden it up a little and give it some more scope. Plus "games", "gameplay" and "game theory" seem to be general topics multiple people on this board are interested in, as well I think playing games has an inherent connection with Discordia, in a sense. Good idea? Great idea? Brilliant idea?

I believe the Infinity Game Engine could be used for this purpose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Engine