I think I'm going to love Oakland

[tyrannosaurus vex]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

[E.O.T.]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

YOU

          ought'ta read what you just wrote.

PEOPLE

          people, not the f*ing morons making collateral damage of other's lives and livelihood, are just trying to survive. shop owners, home owners, families, - these people don't have time to sit around listening to indie rock. these people are not complicit with the motives of individuals within the police department.

[the last yatto]

the point of a good riot is not to express dissatisfaction with the situation. it is to stop society from working until the situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

Throwing blood is often more effective then throwing rocks at windows

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

YOU

          ought'ta read what you just wrote.

PEOPLE

          people, not the f*ing morons making collateral damage of other's lives and livelihood, are just trying to survive. shop owners, home owners, families, - these people don't have time to sit around listening to indie rock. these people are not complicit with the motives of individuals within the police department.

NO ONE'S

          life ended from the riots.

"BITCH-ASS NIGGER"

          was one of the last things Oscar Grant heard before he was shot to death by the white cop who will be free within a year.

HOWEVER,

         I'm so profoundly sorry your sense of decency was insulted by all that unspeakable property damage.

[tyrannosaurus vex]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

YOU

         ought'ta read what you just wrote.

PEOPLE

         people, not the f*ing morons making collateral damage of other's lives and livelihood, are just trying to survive. shop owners, home owners, families, - these people don't have time to sit around listening to indie rock. these people are not complicit with the motives of individuals within the police department.

Everyone who isn't doing something to stop the Machine from rolling over the top of other people is complicit. Whether they know it or not, whether they want to think about it or not, they are. Is it going too far to break windows in a shop owned by somebody who isn't even remotely involved in the situation? Maybe. But it's also going too far to not give a fuck when the Machine crushes the powerless and exonerates the guilty. Every kowtowing, ass-kissing, "just minding my own business," oblivious, complacent motherfucker in Oakland and everywhere else is partly to blame for the actions of their community government.

Sometimes, the consequences of not doing anything to improve society include becoming the victim of a society that breaks your shit.

[Requia ☣]

If the guy had gotten away without going to trial I'd agree.  If the government refused to prosecute criminals then the mob becomes the only real alternative.  But the guy went to trial, got a slick lawyer, and got off easy.  Nobody ever said the justice system was perfect, but as long as its actually being used its better than the alternative.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

YOU

         ought'ta read what you just wrote.

PEOPLE

         people, not the f*ing morons making collateral damage of other's lives and livelihood, are just trying to survive. shop owners, home owners, families, - these people don't have time to sit around listening to indie rock. these people are not complicit with the motives of individuals within the police department.

Everyone who isn't doing something to stop the Machine from rolling over the top of other people is complicit. Whether they know it or not, whether they want to think about it or not, they are. Is it going too far to break windows in a shop owned by somebody who isn't even remotely involved in the situation? Maybe. But it's also going too far to not give a fuck when the Machine crushes the powerless and exonerates the guilty. Every kowtowing, ass-kissing, "just minding my own business," oblivious, complacent motherfucker in Oakland and everywhere else is partly to blame for the actions of their community government.

Sometimes, the consequences of not doing anything to improve society include becoming the victim of a society that breaks your shit.

So are you saying that everyone who owns private property is doing nothing to improve society and is therefore complicit, deserving to have their shit smashed up?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

What part of Oakland you moving to, Net? I lived in Millsmont, right up the hill from Eastmont Mall.

My GF knows some people who will rent to us way below market price in the Montclair neighborhood while they travel for a year.

After that the plan is to stay in Oakland somewhere affordable until she finishes graduate school.

Oh, Montclair! That's pretty fucking nice. Not the kind of "Oakland" I'm familiar with, at all. Enjoy it!

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

Someone totally doesn't get the concept of "The Machine" ITT.

Also, yeah, fucking up people's property can be devastating, and to the wrong folks. It's like protesting Bank of America by burning down your neighbor's house. Doesn't hurt BOA, but it does hurt your neighbor.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

YOU

         ought'ta read what you just wrote.

PEOPLE

         people, not the f*ing morons making collateral damage of other's lives and livelihood, are just trying to survive. shop owners, home owners, families, - these people don't have time to sit around listening to indie rock. these people are not complicit with the motives of individuals within the police department.

Everyone who isn't doing something to stop the Machine from rolling over the top of other people is complicit. Whether they know it or not, whether they want to think about it or not, they are. Is it going too far to break windows in a shop owned by somebody who isn't even remotely involved in the situation? Maybe. But it's also going too far to not give a fuck when the Machine crushes the powerless and exonerates the guilty. Every kowtowing, ass-kissing, "just minding my own business," oblivious, complacent motherfucker in Oakland and everywhere else is partly to blame for the actions of their community government.

Sometimes, the consequences of not doing anything to improve society include becoming the victim of a society that breaks your shit.

SDS/Yippies, ITT.  "By any means necessary."

That's how monsters are born!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent?

"The only innocents are those not born."
- Joe "Anything for a Laugh" Stalin

So tell me, Vex, should all guilty people be punished, no matter what the results are?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

the point of a good riot is not to express dissatisfaction with the situation. it is to stop society from working until the situation is resolved to your satisfaction.

And beatings.  Can't have a good riot without a little mob justice on someone who looks insufficiently on your side.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

The part Vexation doesn't seem to understand is that the riot doesn't stop the Machine. The riot is the Machine.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Someone totally doesn't get the concept of "The Machine" ITT.

Also, yeah, fucking up people's property can be devastating, and to the wrong folks. It's like protesting Bank of America by burning down your neighbor's house. Doesn't hurt BOA, but it does hurt your neighbor.

Using overt violence against The Machine™ is something I've been preaching against for years, not out of any sort of moral sense, but because it doesn't fucking work.

You're basically fighting on its terms, which is a good way to lose.  And, as the man said, what do you get when you burn down the ghetto?  A burned down ghetto.  

You've hurt people on the ground, and given the people in power yet another excuse to drop the hammer.

[Salty]

okay, not to be contrarian here, and yeah i think there are limits, but really? who is innocent? the people who just want everybody to shut up so they can open for business like nothing is wrong? the people who just want some peace and quiet so they can listen to indie rock and NPR and pretend that voting Makes A Difference™? these people are not innocent, they are complicit in a malfunctioning society. they are the bullhorns of silence. it is precisely these people whose attention must be forcibly seized, because they are more concerned about everybody just pretending like nothing is wrong, than with fixing things so they're actually a little less wrong.

of course, pulling a guy out of a truck and beating him half to death during a riot is crossing the line. but it's not the same as looting a store or smashing some windows or burning up a car. that's all just stuff. if that's what it takes to get people's attention, then that's what it takes. in the long run it will probably take a lot more than that, or maybe it's impossible in the long run. but my argument is that a riot is a riot and they are violent and ugly. they suck. maybe the cop shouldn't have gotten a measly 2 years for murder, though. maybe if the system worked right, it wouldn't have to worry about riots.

YOU

         ought'ta read what you just wrote.

PEOPLE

         people, not the f*ing morons making collateral damage of other's lives and livelihood, are just trying to survive. shop owners, home owners, families, - these people don't have time to sit around listening to indie rock. these people are not complicit with the motives of individuals within the police department.

Everyone who isn't doing something to stop the Machine from rolling over the top of other people is complicit. Whether they know it or not, whether they want to think about it or not, they are. Is it going too far to break windows in a shop owned by somebody who isn't even remotely involved in the situation? Maybe. But it's also going too far to not give a fuck when the Machine crushes the powerless and exonerates the guilty. Every kowtowing, ass-kissing, "just minding my own business," oblivious, complacent motherfucker in Oakland and everywhere else is partly to blame for the actions of their community government.

Sometimes, the consequences of not doing anything to improve society include becoming the victim of a society that breaks your shit.

Should I put a little note on all my shit that says: "Dismantling the dominant paradigm here, feeding my kids, brb." Would that stop them from turning my car upside down in a mob rush? Regardless of one's level of political activity, I have the right to not have my shit, my essential to daily life shit, set on fire.

I guess I could always call the cops....