Pedophile Handbook, now in Kindle edition!

[BadBeast]

LMNO speaks truth.

Just because an emotional response is understandable doesn't mean it's right.

But just because a response is emotional, doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm not being contrary on this, just for the sake of it, I've been turning this over in my head all day. I accept that to respond with violence, is rarely the ''right'' solution, and I'm not a person who ever relies on violence to make a point. But I also don't subscribe to the platitude that "violence is never the answer". It all too often is the answer. Not the best answer, or even a good one, but sometimes it is the only answer a person is able to come up with.
I know, "Then a person should look harder". But we are a violent species, and to try to suppress this, either personally, or culturally, leads to all kinds of aberrant  behaviour,  from emo cutting, to all out Superpower confrontation. I just think it's better to have a few more fat lips, and black eyes, than simmering resentments, factionalised communities, and Wars.     

[The Good Reverend Roger]

For instance what happened when the phelps croud showed up at cmic con and faced a parody of themselves in full cosplay glamour. It was glorious.

Well yeah, I agree that's even better, but that was an organised and pre-planned response.
My point, is that if any person or persons, were to turn up at a funeral, any funeral, and behave in the way that the WBC behave, and in reaction to this, the righteously outraged mourners, (Who are there after all, to bury a loved one)  were to give the offending person / persons a good hiding, would that be wrong?

Put yourself in the position of one of the mourners. A very dear and beloved family member's life has been cut short, in some pointless tragedy. You are trying to get through the worst fucking day of your life, and put your loved one in the ground, and some people, who have no connection whatsoever with any of the mourners, or the deceased, show up, and behave like the WBC.  And they will not shut up.
In response to this, yourself and 3 of the pallbearers approach these people, who are shouting horrible untrue allegations against your dead family member, telling you that they will burn forever in Hellfire,  because God hates fags, or some other spiteful nasty shite.  Outraged,  In pain and righteous anger, you punch that fucker out. Have you behaved inappropriately, given the circumstances? Can you honestly say that if this happened, you would be the one in the wrong?

You've behaved appropriately.  But you're going to jail, and Phelps is getting free press.

"Appropriate" is not always a winning strategy.

[LMNO]

It's not that 'Violence is never the answer', it's that 'Violence is not the answer to words.'

If you are physically attacked, physically defend yourself.  If you are emotionally or ideologically attacked, don't punch them in the face.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

It's not that 'Violence is never the answer', it's that 'Violence is not the answer to words.'

If you are physically attacked, physically defend yourself.  If you are emotionally or ideologically attacked, don't punch them in the face.

(It had to be done.)

[Freeky]

LMNO speaks truth.

Just because an emotional response is understandable doesn't mean it's right.

But just because a response is emotional, doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm not being contrary on this, just for the sake of it, I've been turning this over in my head all day. I accept that to respond with violence, is rarely the ''right'' solution, and I'm not a person who ever relies on violence to make a point. But I also don't subscribe to the platitude that "violence is never the answer". It all too often is the answer. Not the best answer, or even a good one, but sometimes it is the only answer a person is able to come up with.
I know, "Then a person should look harder". But we are a violent species, and to try to suppress this, either personally, or culturally, leads to all kinds of aberrant  behaviour,  from emo cutting, to all out Superpower confrontation. I just think it's better to have a few more fat lips, and black eyes, than simmering resentments, factionalised communities, and Wars.     

This, personally, is my beef with the rest of humanity. I work every day at being a better human, and that usually entails not hitting people when I think they deserve it. What the hell do we have self-awareness for if we can't use it to better ourselves, instead of just existing and doing whatever pops in your head?

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I know, "Then a person should look harder". But we are a violent species, and to try to suppress this, either personally, or culturally, leads to all kinds of aberrant  behaviour,  from emo cutting, to all out Superpower confrontation. I just think it's better to have a few more fat lips, and black eyes, than simmering resentments, factionalised communities, and Wars.    

Naturalistic fallacy. It also is natural to die of an infected toe.

How exactly does violence cause less strife than suppressing it?

[East Coast Hustle]

For instance what happened when the phelps croud showed up at cmic con and faced a parody of themselves in full cosplay glamour. It was glorious.

Well yeah, I agree that's even better, but that was an organised and pre-planned response.
My point, is that if any person or persons, were to turn up at a funeral, any funeral, and behave in the way that the WBC behave, and in reaction to this, the righteously outraged mourners, (Who are there after all, to bury a loved one)  were to give the offending person / persons a good hiding, would that be wrong?

Put yourself in the position of one of the mourners. A very dear and beloved family member's life has been cut short, in some pointless tragedy. You are trying to get through the worst fucking day of your life, and put your loved one in the ground, and some people, who have no connection whatsoever with any of the mourners, or the deceased, show up, and behave like the WBC.  And they will not shut up.
In response to this, yourself and 3 of the pallbearers approach these people, who are shouting horrible untrue allegations against your dead family member, telling you that they will burn forever in Hellfire,  because God hates fags, or some other spiteful nasty shite.  Outraged,  In pain and righteous anger, you punch that fucker out. Have you behaved inappropriately, given the circumstances? Can you honestly say that if this happened, you would be the one in the wrong?

You've behaved appropriately.  But you're going to jail, and Phelps is getting free press.

"Appropriate" is not always a winning strategy.

This.

Just because those horrible asstards deserve an ass-kicking doesn't mean that kicking their asses is the best long-term strategy.

[East Coast Hustle]

That said, I also disagree with anyone who insists that violence is NEVER the answer, or that it should only be used to counter violence.

I mean, if I'm pretty sure that you're gonna punch me in the face sometime in the next 2 minutes, I'm gonna punch you first, law be damned.

[Cain]

It actually doesn't.

According to the latest research, war is not a natural human condition but spreads - rather like a disease - because....well, people who don't defend themselves by adopting warfare don't last very long in wars.

Therefore, unless the people you are attacking are pacifists, you're just setting up a greater conflict for when they form "self-defense" groups and start actively "defending" themselves by preemptively attacking others.  And the other side reacts by doing the same and you enter the classic security dilemma which historically, among other things, ended up with forty years of warfare and corpses all over Ancient Greece.

I'm sure you know this Net, but I'm explicating in case anyone else didn't get the point.

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

I'm sure you know this Net, but I'm explicating in case anyone else didn't get the point.

Logically and on an instinctual level I agree, though I really need to flesh it out with more empirical knowledge.

I've been meaning to read "Guns, Germs and Steel" for a while now, so I can add more to this sort of conversation.

[BadBeast]

LMNO speaks truth.

Just because an emotional response is understandable doesn't mean it's right.

But just because a response is emotional, doesn't mean it's wrong. I'm not being contrary on this, just for the sake of it, I've been turning this over in my head all day. I accept that to respond with violence, is rarely the ''right'' solution, and I'm not a person who ever relies on violence to make a point. But I also don't subscribe to the platitude that "violence is never the answer". It all too often is the answer. Not the best answer, or even a good one, but sometimes it is the only answer a person is able to come up with.
I know, "Then a person should look harder". But we are a violent species, and to try to suppress this, either personally, or culturally, leads to all kinds of aberrant  behaviour,  from emo cutting, to all out Superpower confrontation. I just think it's better to have a few more fat lips, and black eyes, than simmering resentments, factionalised communities, and Wars.     

This, personally, is my beef with the rest of humanity. I work every day at being a better human, and that usually entails not hitting people when I think they deserve it. What the hell do we have self-awareness for if we can't use it to better ourselves, instead of just existing and doing whatever pops in your head?

I can certainly understand that. As for being a better human, I always wanted that for myself, but for a long time, however much I tried to achieve this, it was one step forward, two (or to my shame, three or even four steps back) So after a while, I lowered the bar for myself. Changed my objective to "Not being a worse human". And I know how much of a cop out that sounds, but it was achievable. And you know what? while I was trying not to be a worse human, I inadvertantly gave myself the breathing space to develop some self awareness. Which is what I had been lacking. Now, over 20 years later, I am an infinitely better human than I was. (even though I do say so myself) Self awareness is the fucking key, without which, there is not even the insight to see that you need to be better at anything. I found I had hidden qualities. That I'd  hidden from myself.
And an equal amount of faults that I'd hidden even better. Probably still have a few to find yet, but that's ok, because I'm still getting to be an even better human. Maybe one day, I will become that rarest of things, "The Best of Men". I haven't completely written that off yet, as an ideal. And that's why I can maintain an optimistic outlook for the rest of you fuckers. Because I know that my species, is fucking awesome! Often are fucking awesome. And stupid. but that's OK, because lots of them are becoming better humans too. 

[Reginald Ret]

Violence in reaction to words can be an acceptable reaction.
In your eyes.
Just don't expect others to agree with you.
Remember: those others are the ones who will be judging wether you acted in a way that deserves punishment.

So you can get violent if someone insults your grannie at her funeral, just dont expect to do so without getting a few bruises and/or spending some time in jail.


You can do whatever you want to, just don't expect to do so without consequences.

[BadBeast]

Violence in reaction to words can be an acceptable reaction.
In your eyes.
Just don't expect others to agree with you.
Remember: those others are the ones who will be judging wether you acted in a way that deserves punishment.

So you can get violent if someone insults your grannie at her funeral, just dont expect to do so without getting a few bruises and/or spending some time in jail.


You can do whatever you want to, just don't expect to do so without consequences.

This is the exact same point I was trying to make to start with.  Actions, and their consequences.

[Don Coyote]

I am going to put into my will that when I die a hand written invitation, penned by myself, will be delivered to someone in the WBC, if they are still around, asking them to please attend my funeral. It will also include a list of my many sins.

[BadBeast]

I am going to put into my will that when I die a hand written invitation, penned by myself, will be delivered to someone in the WBC, if they are still around, asking them to please attend my funeral. It will also include a list of my many sins.

Can I come along, and give them all a good slap talking to?