New XM25 Grenade Launcher Announced by US Military

[BadBeast]

Is there an estimated price of these toys?

And how much is an AK-47 anyways?

A brand new Chinese copy is 15 USD in downtown Kabul Market.

[Phox]

I believe this thread is an elaborate waste of the mental resources of PD. Also, someone needs to send me an AKM for Xmas.

[Don Coyote]

I think we should spag this thread up with firearm geekery.

[Phox]

I think we should spag this thread up with firearm geekery.

So what do you prefer AR-15 builds or AK builds? I'm partial to the ARs myself, because I don't have as much trouble keeping my aim low. I suppose that's because of more efficient recoil absorption. 

[Don Coyote]

I think we should spag this thread up with firearm geekery.

So what do you prefer AR-15 builds or AK builds? I'm partial to the ARs myself, because I don't have as much trouble keeping my aim low. I suppose that's because of more efficient recoil absorption. 

Having never held an AK or it's variants, I have next to know opinion between either families of weapons. Although if you are aiming low to hit your mark with any rifle that has adjustable sights, you are doing it wrong. You can adjust the front sight post on an AR15, which will shift your point of aim up or down.

[Phox]

I meant the recoil on the AK raises the barrel, causing me to readjust my aim after 1 round, as opposed to 2 or 3 on the AR, not that I was aiming lower than where I was hitting. Then again, I'm not very strong and I've only fired either once. And that's about as firearm geeky as I can get, since my other firing experiences are limited to civilian hunting rifles/shotguns and 9mm handguns of various makes.

[Persona Facade]

However, if the public informs themselves well enough it could be prevented.

I detect a subtle flaw in your argument.

This is sad...but unfortunately true.

[Persona Facade]

As previous stated: the XM25 is meant to disrupt infantry formations and used to take down lightly fortified positions without causing collateral damage.

Who do you think we are fighting currently?

The Redcoats, in their pretty battlefield lines, obviously.

Enemy combatants regrouping or gathering in an area doesn't count as a formation? Splitting apart enemy combatants in order to capture one of single out a target does not count as disrupting formation?

[Cain]

Unfortunately, "enemy combatants" have this nasty tendency to "group" near civilians.  So chances are you'll end up "disrupting" civilian guts and organs all down the street.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

However, if the public informs themselves well enough it could be prevented.

Can we talk about the real world now?

Not to mention if they discussed cutting expenses it should be within the same realm of combat, not a different one. Adding a grenade launcher to the military's arsenal should not have anything to do with body armor

I didn't say BODY ARMOR, I said ARMOR.  You know, tanks, APCs, etc.

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

[Persona Facade]

I didn't say BODY ARMOR, I said ARMOR.  You know, tanks, APCs, etc.

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

You actually believe the United States would cut out tanks and armored transport?
Not to mention how would adding a grenade launcher justify removing heavily armored vehicles from service? The two do not fulfill the same roles and it would be foolish to think adding a grenade launcher would replace an armored vehicle.
Perhaps it is you, stuck in some sort of conspiratorial delusion, that is confused.
Adding a small arm is in no way a replacement for armored vehicles.

I did misconstrue what you said previously and for that I apologize. I just assumed you were staying in the realm of infantry, not hopping around into all sorts of other topics without announcing a change.

[BadBeast]

I think we should spag this thread up with firearm geekery.

I spent a lot of time, stalking Habr Ghidr from the Mogadishu rooftops, and found the HK PSG 1 a worthy tool. (Except for it's habit of ejecting spent cartridge casings with enough velocity to take your ear off) Ended up using the Barrett light 50. A bit of an overkill, I know, but the satisfaction of a well executed headshot using one of these babys is pure poetry in motion.


I'm not talking real life here, but playing "Delta Force Black Hawk Down".  But I got all the realism that I could ever want, regarding long range hard target interdiction. And rooftop sniping. And became so accomplished at the missions, I got the expansion pack, which sent me to Colombia, fighting Drug Cartel Militia, and Iranian insurgents too. I lived and died a thousand times in my career as a member of Delta Force. But I had to leave and went on to more specialist work, mopping up Bio-genetically engineered Rogue Mutants, in FarCry.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

You actually believe the United States would cut out tanks and armored transport?

It's already happened twice.  Somalia in the 90s (The "Blackhawk Down" incident), and once during the invasion of Iraq in 2003 (We tried to directly assault a tank battalion with Apaches on flat desert to sav shipping more tanks, and got owned by 50 year old ZSU 57-2's.).

So, yeah.  That's exactly what they'd do.

I just assumed you were staying in the realm of infantry, not hopping around into all sorts of other topics without announcing a change.

WWI wants its thinking back.  You don't just talk infantry, you have to view it as combined arms.  Always.  You can't use artillery in an urban setting, because those darned buildings get in the way, same with jets, and helicopters have a bad habit of attracting SA11 missiles, or just being turned into a collander by machine gun fire.

All that's left as consistent backup is armor, and if you short the troops on armor, you get a replay of Somalia...And there's no advantage to replacing armor with this new gizmo, unless you reduce the amount of armor you deploy.

Modern warfare isn't about high tech sexiness, it's about training.  Spend less on toys from the beltway bandits, and concentrate more on, you know, actually developing and achieving objectives.  Sending supply clerks in to guard convoys is fucking ridiculous (Jessica Lynch, anyone?)...Spend that money on either training new grunts, or retraining (properly) the clerks & jerks that are sent out to play infantry. 

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Perhaps it is you, stuck in some sort of conspiratorial delusion, that is confused.
Adding a small arm is in no way a replacement for armored vehicles.

The sky in my world is blue, and the pencil sharpener boys LOVE to try to do things on the cheap.

What color is the sky in your world, where pentagon accountants do things with an eye to effect, rather than cost?

[Adios]

Perhaps it is you, stuck in some sort of conspiratorial delusion, that is confused.
Adding a small arm is in no way a replacement for armored vehicles.

The sky in my world is blue, and the pencil sharpener boys LOVE to try to do things on the cheap.

What color is the sky in your world, where pentagon accountants do things with an eye to effect, rather than cost?

This is what happens when waging war is learned from video games.