Italy to ban plastic bags

[hooplala]

I think most people are remarkably nice to each other, even strangers.  It's part of the human mind, I guess, that we remember the assholes more than all the other people who were nice.

[Adios]

LMNO, sorry if I came across assholish, not my intention.

That's ok.  I'm not firm on my position.  If I thought that having a dedicated smoking bar would work, or a completely voluntary compliance would satisfy everyone, I'd get behind it.  I just don't see that as feasible in the current climate.

It occurs to me that the only way to make it work without regulation is for everyone to suddenly start acting nice to each other, including strangers.

And we know how well that works.

When I owned the bar in Ellis I looked around at the demographic. I thought rednecks and country music. I hired a decent country band and 10 people showed up. Same thing next time.

I hired a rock band and 300 showed up. Then I went out on a limb and hired a head banger band. 200 people showed up.

Never hired a country band again.

Fuck demographics and preconceived notions. 

[hooplala]

LMNO, sorry if I came across assholish, not my intention.

That's ok.  I'm not firm on my position.  If I thought that having a dedicated smoking bar would work, or a completely voluntary compliance would satisfy everyone, I'd get behind it.  I just don't see that as feasible in the current climate.

It occurs to me that the only way to make it work without regulation is for everyone to suddenly start acting nice to each other, including strangers.

And we know how well that works.

When I owned the bar in Ellis I looked around at the demographic. I thought rednecks and country music. I hired a decent country band and 10 people showed up. Same thing next time.

I hired a rock band and 300 showed up. Then I went out on a limb and hired a head banger band. 200 people showed up.

Never hired a country band again.

Fuck demographics and preconceived notions. 

Not even one night a week? 

[Adios]

LMNO, sorry if I came across assholish, not my intention.

That's ok.  I'm not firm on my position.  If I thought that having a dedicated smoking bar would work, or a completely voluntary compliance would satisfy everyone, I'd get behind it.  I just don't see that as feasible in the current climate.

It occurs to me that the only way to make it work without regulation is for everyone to suddenly start acting nice to each other, including strangers.

And we know how well that works.

When I owned the bar in Ellis I looked around at the demographic. I thought rednecks and country music. I hired a decent country band and 10 people showed up. Same thing next time.

I hired a rock band and 300 showed up. Then I went out on a limb and hired a head banger band. 200 people showed up.

Never hired a country band again.

Fuck demographics and preconceived notions. 

Not even one night a week? 

I had a business to run.

[Adios]

These guys played my bar several times.

http://www.reverbnation.com/audiospaghetti

[Fujikoma]

I see your point, Cain. I wouldn't smoke around an asthmatic person myself, but I can see how it would get irritating with people being disrespectful because you asked them to put it out. Honestly, if I'm in a smoking bar, even, and somebody says "Hey buddy, yeah, could you put that out?" I'll just put out my smoke, not because I'm a sissy or anything, but because I figure they have a good reason for that. It's only happened to me once, though.

In a non-smoking bar, lighting up without thinking is actually quite emberassing... I've done it once or twice, I'm not proud of it.

I'm thinking, they're going to modify the cigarette packs soon with pictures of cancerous lungs on them, which is really gross. No one is going to have a smoking dining establishment if they have to hang a huge, unappetizing banner outside, it's going to be bad for business, but the option is there. I would think it would also be discouraging for the bar, especially since they'll have to keep track of it in high winds and whatnot, and it would serve as a warning for any nonsmokers that there is smoking inside. I think this would be good for the problem.

Yeah, smokers could go into nonsmoking bars, this is true. Nothing is stopping the nonsmokers from going into smoking bars, other than their concern for their well being. They have a choice, just like you have a choice whether you work around poisonous welding fumes or not. If they're severely asthmatic, then, no, they don't have a choice, stay away from the big banner with the blackened lungs on it, but I think a lot of places, now that they've been nonsmoking for a while, would not revert back. Few things feel as grody as sitting in a dark bar in a thick cloud of smoke, sometimes, even smokers will go outside for fresh air. It damages the atmosphere of the place.

It would be seriously frowned upon were I to enter the women's restroom, I don't see a problem with keeping my ass out of there, unless it's an emergency and there's a long line, at which point, I'd say fuck convention and piss all over the seat for good measure ().

And yeah, expecting everyone to be nice to everyone else is unrealistic, but one can dream, and work towards it... You might be surprised with the results. Most people I've gotten to know really weren't as bad as they at first seemed, with a few exceptions.

[Triple Zero]

If we were out having drinks I would respect your condition and go away from you to smoke. Maybe I am just weird.

Lots of people do not.  Lots of people do not give a shit.  Or act outraged if you ask them to put their cigarette out.  Or actually attack you.

I actually found that this attitude changed a lot (for the better) since we got smoking bans in public places. Odd thing is, even at people's private homes where they didn't mind smoking inside, it's now a lot more common to not do so (or be asked not to) when there are non-smokers around (whether they have asthma, or they just don't like the smell).

I think it's an interesting development, I don't think it's bad per se.

Also, while technically we have an outright smoking ban in all public places, there are some bars that don't care, allow smoking (in the beginning a couple of bars in my city banded together, to split the fee for the first that would get caught--they were persistent, and after a lot of haggling back and forth, it seems to be somewhat tolerated right now, even though it's still illegal).

Now the interesting thing about this, coming back to the Club Air vs Club Cancer example, we usually go out with a group of friends, and usually the smokers are in the minority, and this usually means the rest argues they don't want their hair or clothes to smell, which means we generally end up in Club Air (or more likely, Pub Air). And of course if one of the group has asthma, there's no question about where we'd go.

[BabylonHoruv]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

[BabylonHoruv]

LMNO, sorry if I came across assholish, not my intention.

That's ok.  I'm not firm on my position.  If I thought that having a dedicated smoking bar would work, or a completely voluntary compliance would satisfy everyone, I'd get behind it.  I just don't see that as feasible in the current climate.

It occurs to me that the only way to make it work without regulation is for everyone to suddenly start acting nice to each other, including strangers.

And we know how well that works.

In cities in which smoking in public places is still permitted non-smoking clubs have tended to do fairly well,  so long as they weren't also Christian establishments that prohibited drinking, or otherwise boring stick in the mud sort of places.

[Epimetheus]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

Wait, what? I'm not getting your analogy...

[Adios]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

Wait, what? I'm not getting your analogy...

lost me as well

[BabylonHoruv]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

Wait, what? I'm not getting your analogy...

That yes it's a choice, but it's not an easy choice like paper or plastic.  It's a difficult choice with your brain wiring heavily leaning toward you making the choice in one direction, and not the other.

[Adios]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

Wait, what? I'm not getting your analogy...

That yes it's a choice, but it's not an easy choice like paper or plastic.  It's a difficult choice with your brain wiring heavily leaning toward you making the choice in one direction, and not the other.

fags fuck more than non-fags?

see the fail?

[Epimetheus]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

Wait, what? I'm not getting your analogy...

That yes it's a choice, but it's not an easy choice like paper or plastic.  It's a difficult choice with your brain wiring heavily leaning toward you making the choice in one direction, and not the other.

Homosexuals naturally abstain from sex?

[Phox]

That only works if both smoking and non-smoking clubs are equivalent.

Smoker can go to Club Air or Club Cancer.  They have a choice.  If they go to Club Air, they can go outside to smoke.

Asthmatic can only go to Club Air.  They do not have the choice not to breathe in Club Cancer.

Therefore, if something cool is going on in Club Cancer, asthmatics cannot attend.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Make smokers stand outside 50 feet away from the entrance in the winter freezing.

Think about that when you start talking about fairness.

Oh, so smoking is no longer a choice?

It's one of the most addictive drugs known to mankind.  Yeah, it's a choice, just like abstaining from sex is a choice for people who are wired for homosexuality.

Wait, what? I'm not getting your analogy...

He's saying that NOT smoking for addicted people is like the choice for a homosexual to choose to be abstinent rather than have sex with members of the same sex. So it's basically a non-choice.

To which my reply is: you're fucking full of shit, BH. That analogy is so fucking flawed it's beyond belief.  Had this conversation on TCC a few months ago. Don't make me bring the bad feelings over here.