Universe [Probably] 250+ Times Bigger Than What Is Observable

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Tin foil time, but I never did believe we live in a finite universe.

I always liked the idea of infinite amount of matter in an infinite amount of space. It's just that there's more infinite space than infinite matter, if that makes sense.

Would the matter really be infinite?  I can grasp infinite space (I think), but it would seem to me that the matter in the universe must be finite.  Am I mistaken?

Might not make sense, but infinity is not a fixed numerical value. I might be thinking about it the wrong way, but I can imagine it being possible for infinite matter to fit within a larger infinite space.

[LMNO]

The term "larger infinite" makes no real sense.

[Adios]

LOL, this was written in 1830.

Joseph Smith records the following:

   31: And Behold, the glory of the Lord was upon Moses, so that Moses stood in the presence of God, and talked with him face to face. And the Lord God said unto Moses: For mine own purpose have I made these things. Here is wisdom and it remaineth in me. 32: And by the word of my power, have I created them, which is mine Only Begotten Son, who is full of grace and truth. And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

Book of Mormon, Moses, chapter 1.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

The term "larger infinite" makes no real sense.

Yeah, I know. I'm just having trouble thinking of a way to put the thought into words. It was the only thing I could really think of.

[Requia ☣]

Smith was hardly the first guy to believe that (see Giordano Bruno for an earlier guy).  Think he might have been the first one not to be tortured to death for saying it outloud though.

True, but as far as I can recall, either liquid water or liquid methane would be needed as a solvent, and water is more versatile. Most of these planets seem to be a lot of hydrogen and helium.

That said, it would be pretty cool to find a silicon based insect that drinks methane.

I think ammonia (or ammonium, I've never been able to remember which does what), has the right physical chemistry properties to make a standin for water too, though I don't know if organic chemicals form in it.

The term "larger infinite" makes no real sense.

It works mathematically.  IE, there are an infinite number of rational numbers, and an even bigger infinity of irrational ones.

[Precious Moments Zalgo]

The term "larger infinite" makes no real sense.

It works mathematically.  IE, there are an infinite number of rational numbers, and an even bigger infinity of irrational ones.

Yeah, or think of it this way.  Imagine an eternal afterlife that literally lasts forever, and say you have two choices.  With one, you have sex twice a week, forever.  With the other you have sex once every hundred trillion years, forever.  Either way, there is an infinite amount of sex involved, but there is a whole lot more of it with the first choice.

[Igor]

Either way, there is an infinite amount of sex involved, but there is a whole lot more of it with the first choice.

Either way, there is the same amount of sex in both cases, at least according to set theory. Both amounts add up to "countable infinity" or aleph null.

What that basically means is that there is a way to map each natural number to each instance of sex. Though Hilbert's Hotel is the more usual way of explaining this, rather than infinite sex heaven.

But it has to be said that all the above is fairly abstract maths with only a tenuous connection to any actual physical infinities (if they exist).

[LMNO]

What Igor said.  It doesn't matter if there is Infinity, or Infinity+1.  Both amounts are infinitie.  You will never have one bigger than the other, because both never end.

Math tricks aside.

[Cramulus]

this is a tangent, and I apologize for the threadjack...

but I'm vaguely recalling a mathematician ... Georg Cantor? whose theories involved varying sizes of infinity.


The idea being that there's an infinite number of fractions between each integer. And there's an infinite number of integers too. So the total number of fractions is actually [total number of integers] to the infinite power.

so you end up with this paradox where there are larger and smaller infinities

[hooplala]

Are these sorts of things just mathematical masturbation, though?  Do they have any place in the experiential universe?

[LMNO]

Perhaps, as long as we can say there are infinite supplies of STUPID, but some INFINITE STUPIDS are larger than others.

[hooplala]

Perhaps, as long as we can say there are infinite supplies of STUPID, but some INFINITE STUPIDS are larger than others.

Well, I'll agree with that.  There has to be some explanation for 4 fucking seasons of The Jersey Shore.

[Cramulus]

Are these sorts of things just mathematical masturbation, though?  Do they have any place in the experiential universe?

one might wonder if the size of the universe has a bearing on the experiential universe. Probably not, at least not in our lifetimes, but it's cool to think about. 


In college, math majors always struck me as cousins of musicians---

they approach logic with an almost aesthetic sensibility.

they find beauty in symmetry and correspondence, in the tacit relationship between imaginary things. Musicians pursue this beauty in the name of creation and experience, mathmaticians pursue it in the name of truth.

Either way,
Mathematicians and Musicians play all day.


I wonder if theoretical physics has the equivalent of a "jam band".

[LMNO]

Tool.

[Telarus]

The term "larger infinite" makes no real sense.

Yeah. You'd probably want to think of it as an infinite space that has a non-50/50 chance of finding matter at any location measure.


YAY, probabilities!