Unlimited Obama Appreciation Thread.

[Cain]

I don't think that is a given.  Most people I know want to work...maybe not as long hours as they do, maybe not with the shitty people at their office but, as a rule, work fufills an important social role for people.  I know I felt much better after gaining employment (15-20 hours a week) than I did languishing on the dole.  Again, not everyone feels that way, but I'm certain more people do than dont.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think that is a given.  Most people I know want to work...maybe not as long hours as they do, maybe not with the shitty people at their office but, as a rule, work fufills an important social role for people.  I know I felt much better after gaining employment (15-20 hours a week) than I did languishing on the dole.  Again, not everyone feels that way, but I'm certain more people do than dont.

I think it's an inertia thing for many people.  If they're out of work long enough, they lose the desire to work, at least in the front of their brain.

But I've known very few people who didn't WANT to find a job upon being laid off from their last one.

[Dysfunctional Cunt]

I don't think that is a given.  Most people I know want to work...maybe not as long hours as they do, maybe not with the shitty people at their office but, as a rule, work fufills an important social role for people.  I know I felt much better after gaining employment (15-20 hours a week) than I did languishing on the dole.  Again, not everyone feels that way, but I'm certain more people do than dont.

I think it's an inertia thing for many people.  If they're out of work long enough, they lose the desire to work, at least in the front of their brain.

But I've known very few people who didn't WANT to find a job upon being laid off from their last one.

Some people are just lazy fucks.  With those aside as a given, I've known a few who didn't try too hard to find work when they were laid off/let go.  For the most part, the people I see now are so desperate for work you can smell it.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think that is a given.  Most people I know want to work...maybe not as long hours as they do, maybe not with the shitty people at their office but, as a rule, work fufills an important social role for people.  I know I felt much better after gaining employment (15-20 hours a week) than I did languishing on the dole.  Again, not everyone feels that way, but I'm certain more people do than dont.

I think it's an inertia thing for many people.  If they're out of work long enough, they lose the desire to work, at least in the front of their brain.

But I've known very few people who didn't WANT to find a job upon being laid off from their last one.

Some people are just lazy fucks.  With those aside as a given, I've known a few who didn't try too hard to find work when they were laid off/let go.  For the most part, the people I see now are so desperate for work you can smell it.

Yes, and some people BECOME lazy fucks.

[Adios]

I don't think that is a given.  Most people I know want to work...maybe not as long hours as they do, maybe not with the shitty people at their office but, as a rule, work fufills an important social role for people.  I know I felt much better after gaining employment (15-20 hours a week) than I did languishing on the dole.  Again, not everyone feels that way, but I'm certain more people do than dont.

I think it's an inertia thing for many people.  If they're out of work long enough, they lose the desire to work, at least in the front of their brain.

But I've known very few people who didn't WANT to find a job upon being laid off from their last one.

Some people are just lazy fucks.  With those aside as a given, I've known a few who didn't try too hard to find work when they were laid off/let go.  For the most part, the people I see now are so desperate for work you can smell it.

Yes, and some people BECOME lazy fucks.

Like me.

[Requia ☣]

And me.  I don't think I did anything at all in 2010.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I work in IT and I can think of ways to "create more jobs", but why would we?

Ever see what happens to people who survive for long periods of time without working?

I think I stated that poorly... What driver is there to become less efficient and less cost effective?

We can make more jobs but they would be unnecessary jobs. They would be jobs that can be done better and faster without people. So why would we do that? Is every company in the country responsible to employ as many people as possible, regardless of the necessity of the job?

It seems to me that we have to come to terms with a world where there simply aren't enough jobs to go around and plan accordingly.

Depends where you place your values.  None of these jobs are unnecessary...They're just currently being done by what is essentially slave labor in other countries.

Are your priorities geared toward maximization of profits, ie, the most benefit for corporations and shareholders, or are they what's best for the country?

Because it's become painfully obvious that the two are not the same thing, in the medium term...And we can see right now what happens when we favor the corporations.

I don't think you'll find any company that is going to keep people employed 'for the good of the country'. At that point we might as well have companies that pay people to dig holes and then fill them in. I mean, thats what a 'sneakernet' would be in this day and age. I don't think its a corporations duty to keep people employed if their job isn't needed.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think you'll find any company that is going to keep people employed 'for the good of the country'.

Good.  Then we can charge them a fucking tariff as if they were a foreign company, based on what percentage of their manufacturing was done inside/outside the United States.

I never expected them to do it voluntarily.  I'm suggesting that they be forced to decide if they're an American company or not.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I mean we can say its too many people, but technology will likely be replacing people for a long time to come... So do we just start passing out cyanide with pink slips?

I work in heavy industry.  TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS, IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE THEM.  At this refinery alone, automation has added 15 jobs, from 41 people to 56...And we're hardly unique in that respect.

SOME TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS. The examples I gave did not create new jobs, it simply eliminated them. We no longer need a team of IT guys to install a patch on every desktop... we need one guy to push a button and then go back to his other job duties. Some tech creates jobs, some eliminates jobs.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I don't think you'll find any company that is going to keep people employed 'for the good of the country'.

Good.  Then we can charge them a fucking tariff as if they were a foreign company, based on what percentage of their manufacturing was done inside/outside the United States.

I never expected them to do it voluntarily.  I'm suggesting that they be forced to decide if they're an American company or not.

Then they'll just move the whole thing outside of the country and eliminate what jobs they do have... I don't understand your argument here... is there some ratio or number of jobs that each company needs to create in order to be considered properly patriotic?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I mean we can say its too many people, but technology will likely be replacing people for a long time to come... So do we just start passing out cyanide with pink slips?

I work in heavy industry.  TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS, IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE THEM.  At this refinery alone, automation has added 15 jobs, from 41 people to 56...And we're hardly unique in that respect.

SOME TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS. The examples I gave did not create new jobs, it simply eliminated them. We no longer need a team of IT guys to install a patch on every desktop... we need one guy to push a button and then go back to his other job duties. Some tech creates jobs, some eliminates jobs.

How much productivity was restored/improved in this fashion?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I don't think you'll find any company that is going to keep people employed 'for the good of the country'.

Good.  Then we can charge them a fucking tariff as if they were a foreign company, based on what percentage of their manufacturing was done inside/outside the United States.

I never expected them to do it voluntarily.  I'm suggesting that they be forced to decide if they're an American company or not.

Then they'll just move the whole thing outside of the country and eliminate what jobs they do have... I don't understand your argument here... is there some ratio or number of jobs that each company needs to create in order to be considered properly patriotic?

Good riddance to them.  They can experience the joys of being nationalized by whatever hellhole they find themselves in.  Halliburton, in particular, after it moved its corporate headquarters to Dubai to avoid paying taxes on their no-bid contracts that they performed in Iraq using Pakistanis.

They're fucking us now, I see no reason to let them wipe their dicks on our legs.  Nor do I see any point in letting them hold us hostage for what few jobs they still offer here.

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

I mean we can say its too many people, but technology will likely be replacing people for a long time to come... So do we just start passing out cyanide with pink slips?

I work in heavy industry.  TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS, IT DOES NOT ELIMINATE THEM.  At this refinery alone, automation has added 15 jobs, from 41 people to 56...And we're hardly unique in that respect.

SOME TECHNOLOGY CREATES JOBS. The examples I gave did not create new jobs, it simply eliminated them. We no longer need a team of IT guys to install a patch on every desktop... we need one guy to push a button and then go back to his other job duties. Some tech creates jobs, some eliminates jobs.

How much productivity was restored/improved in this fashion?

Well we have much closer to 100% compliance on system patching, far less issues and it can be done in the middle of the night without impacting the user. We can roll out new virus signatures/dats etc much faster and protect all systems, compared to the long arduous process that used to be required. So its cheaper, more effective and less of a impact on users.... but it shrunk our Desktop services team by quite a few...

[Captain Utopia]

When your exports are $1.8 trillion and your imports are $2.5 trillion (2008 figures), you're throwing money away you can't easily get back.  When an American worker can be replaced for a fraction of the cost by out-sourcing, with no tangible downside, what rational corporation would do otherwise?

I'd like to see import levies relative to the last 12 month average trade balance.  But since that would not benefit the corporate stakeholders in the short-term, it's hard to see that happening any time soon.

I would have more sympathy with "trickle down" if in practice it wasn't just "send it overseas".

[The Good Reverend Roger]

When your exports are $1.8 trillion and your imports are $2.5 trillion (2008 figures), you're throwing money away you can't easily get back.  When an American worker can be replaced for a fraction of the cost by out-sourcing, with no tangible downside, what rational corporation would do otherwise?

One that doesn't want to decide whether to pay huge fucking tariffs, or move its headquarters offshore.

How long, does anyone suppose, that Halliburton would last if we hauled down the flag?  They've made enemies everywhere, and the best they could shoot for would be mercenaries...And we all know how that ends.

The bastards got no-bid contracts, which they either didn't fulfill or hired damn near 100% non-Americans (while being paid in American tax dollars), and then moved their headquarters to Dubai to avoid taxes on the profits they made off of us.

Give them the boot, and watch the fucking vultures tear them to shreds. 

I think you'll find that most corporations will wind up "on-shoring".

And, Rat, as for your question, they can be as patriotic - or not - as they feel like paying/not paying for.