Prophecies Nobody Wants to Hear, part I of V

[Eater of Clowns]

I realize it's hard to drop the whole pessimism vs. optimism thing, but if we can look past the idealistic technological agriculture utopia and the ravening hordes of starving mouths, we might be able to actually talk about this.

Carrying capacity is an iffy number dependent on practices, that's a given.  It is, however, a number that will need to be faced.  The question isn't what the number is - the question is how to deal with the problem of the number existing in the first place.  It's 2 billion or it's 22 billion, whatever, it's still a question of what to do upon the number becoming a problem.  So we're soon to be waist deep in, well, waste - how do we prevent that at its core, which is an issue of overpopulation?  (I see Cataplanga addressed this while I was typing)

There isn't any easy answer for a population reduction.  I'm all for the one child per female thing but it's not enforceable, and if it was I would trust NO HUMAN BEING in the world to actually do it responsibly.  It gets too much into eugenics.  It, as Roger suggested, would have to be done covertly.  My problem is that this, again, targets specific populations.  Yes, these are the ones that are growing out of control but it seems a drastically ugly way to do it.

As for who would do it, living down as one of history's most notorious evil fucks?  Eh, I personally could live with it.  You're a demon for 50-100 years, then you're still considered bad but your name just gets used as a punch line in whatever equivalent there is to the Internet in the 22nd century.

I wonder what effect education would have in reducing reproduction rates.  If the whole issue could be addressed in a feasibly humane way.

[P3nT4gR4m]

And if the conversation can't happen HERE, it sure as fuck ain't gonna happen with a planet-load of monkeys, so it's fucking pointless.

Conversation can and should happen here but, lets be honest, it's conversation for conversations sake (value thereof not to be underestimated)

It sure as fuck aint going to happen with a planet full of monkeys, we're agreed there but it doesn't need to. The monkeys are governed by a system of plausible deniability, buck passing and straightforward, head in the sand cognitive dissonance. This system operates with an efficiency that borders on autonomy. It would almost work if no monkeys were ever there to grease the wheels. Even though the monkeys are the ones who made it happen it's grown beyond their control.

This system will apply the final solution over and over again until it achieves it's objective which, paradoxically, isn't actually written down anywhere or even conceptualised. There is no plan. It just wants to move, to carry out shit, to accomplish. It doesn't have the slightest idea what.

[Elder Iptuous]

Roger,
of the two possibilities, i understand that you are in favor of the Horrible Population Control path, rather than blithely ending it all, correct?
so what then about the logistics?
you say sterilization is a likely culprit through tainted foods.  i can roll with that hypothetical....
who do you believe (if anybody) has concrete plans to enact this if deemed necessary?  (im assuming that you don't believe that it is currently taking place, i guess)
who do you think might be likeliest to be selected as the next lucky contestant on Most Extreme Elimination Challenge?
Do you believe it is likely enough that you are making survivalist type plans? (or encouraging your kids to?)

also, if some extremely powerful group that could pull off sterilizing the human race into sustainability for benevolent reasons exists, then wouldn't it be preferable to first try to scare the shit out of humanity by a false doom that would compel it to take the necessary self correction? (stop breeding a positive growth rate)
and use the time bought to focus our efforts on what seems the rosiest way to avoid the whole problem, a new frontier? (i.e. get off this rock, partially)

[BadBeast]

We prefer the term "Optimal Conclusion" these days. "Final solution"
has all kinds of negative connotations. And due to the level of selective culling that will be necessary by then, any fresh, positive slant we can dress it up in is going to be appreciated. (By the survivors, at least)
This Brave New World we need to create shouldn't have to be burdened with the guilt of having to decimate our own species. We could call them "The Givers", or something reverential like that, maybe have a day of remembrance for them. And Monuments. Lest we forget.

[Faust]

Sterilisation wont need to be secret or through food, at least not at first. It will be offered to small income families and will come with money, food stamps, who knows. China gives them a radio if they only have one kid.
Extend this logically and you can have people who pay less or no tax if they volunteer for government sterilisation.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Roger,
of the two possibilities, i understand that you are in favor of the Horrible Population Control path, rather than blithely ending it all, correct?
so what then about the logistics?

Nope.  Made my mind up.  The monkeys can all choke on their own sewage and fucking croak.

[Lord Cataplanga]

Roger,
of the two possibilities, i understand that you are in favor of the Horrible Population Control path, rather than blithely ending it all, correct?
so what then about the logistics?

Nope.  Made my mind up.  The monkeys can all choke on their own sewage and fucking croak.

They won't all die at the same time. Some would survive and make the same mistakes all over again.

[Juana]

^ That would be my theory. Monkeys are nothing if not resilient. Some will survive and breed and in a millennia or two, it'll be the same ol' thing all over again.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Roger,
of the two possibilities, i understand that you are in favor of the Horrible Population Control path, rather than blithely ending it all, correct?
so what then about the logistics?

Nope.  Made my mind up.  The monkeys can all choke on their own sewage and fucking croak.

They won't all die at the same time. Some would survive and make the same mistakes all over again.

Good for them.

[BadBeast]

That's probably what happened with our ancestors.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That's probably what happened with our ancestors.

In a few dozen thousand years, they'll assume that the ice age we brought on was natural, and that the "warming trend" they're experiencing is all bullshit.



This cheers me up to no end.

[Don Coyote]

That's probably what happened with our ancestors.

In a few dozen thousand years, they'll assume that the ice age we brought on was natural, and that the "warming trend" they're experiencing is all bullshit.



This cheers me up to no end.

OMG. I can totally see this.

[Cainad (dec.)]

That's probably what happened with our ancestors.

In a few dozen thousand years, they'll assume that the ice age we brought on was natural, and that the "warming trend" they're experiencing is all bullshit.



This cheers me up to no end.

WIN


'Specially since we don't write shit down on rocks anymore. How much of our knowledge and history will survive 10,000 years from now, if we haven't gone extinct?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

That's probably what happened with our ancestors.

In a few dozen thousand years, they'll assume that the ice age we brought on was natural, and that the "warming trend" they're experiencing is all bullshit.



This cheers me up to no end.

WIN


'Specially since we don't write shit down on rocks anymore. How much of our knowledge and history will survive 10,000 years from now, if we haven't gone extinct?

I wonder if people were saying that before the last ice age?

[Cainad (dec.)]

That's probably what happened with our ancestors.

In a few dozen thousand years, they'll assume that the ice age we brought on was natural, and that the "warming trend" they're experiencing is all bullshit.



This cheers me up to no end.

WIN


'Specially since we don't write shit down on rocks anymore. How much of our knowledge and history will survive 10,000 years from now, if we haven't gone extinct?

I wonder if people were saying that before the last ice age?

Ha! Well, whether or not they did, we've still one-upped them.

Long after our magnetic and optical information storage has degraded past recovery, the people of 12,000 AD will still be dealing with loads of our toxic leftovers.

After all, if the people of the future won't use their time travel technology to fix our problems now (and therefore their own, even if it fucks up their history), screw 'em. Taking a leaf out of your book with that attitude.