Union Protests are "Uprisings" Now.

[Jenne]

...yeah, I wouldn't want to be in the business of parsing what's "covered" and what's "not" for insurance companies.  Fuck that.  You have to have a special kind of coldness in the depths of your soul to do that job. 

[Juana]

wasn't Wisconsin the state with the teachers union who tried to get a judge to order the school board to put viagra back on it's prescription drug list at a cost that would have paid for 10 teacher salaries per year?

Milwalkee or Madison I think?  where's my link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38596955/ns/health-sexual_health/

there's my link. 

Need to get their priorities straight IMO and making themselves look like fools to the public doesn't help their cause.

This is not relevant. The bill at hand strips them of the right to have a union and teachers need a union to protect them from vengeful administration, as do the other groups threatened by this.

Hovercat,
  watched thirty teachers be fired without regard to tenure, qualifications, or student test scores

[ñͤͣ̄ͦ̌̑͗͊͛͂͗ ̸̨̨̣̺̼̣̜͙͈͕̮̊̈́̈͂͛̽͊ͭ̓͆ͅé ̰̓̓́ͯ́́͞]

wasn't Wisconsin the state with the teachers union who tried to get a judge to order the school board to put viagra back on it's prescription drug list at a cost that would have paid for 10 teacher salaries per year?

Milwalkee or Madison I think?  where's my link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38596955/ns/health-sexual_health/

there's my link. 

Need to get their priorities straight IMO and making themselves look like fools to the public doesn't help their cause.

Fighting for collective bargaining sure makes them look like fools.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

wasn't Wisconsin the state with the teachers union who tried to get a judge to order the school board to put viagra back on it's prescription drug list at a cost that would have paid for 10 teacher salaries per year?

Milwalkee or Madison I think?  where's my link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38596955/ns/health-sexual_health/

there's my link. 

Need to get their priorities straight IMO and making themselves look like fools to the public doesn't help their cause.

Erectile dysfunction is a disease. Therefore it should be covered by your jobs healthcare.
Aside from your sophomoric amusement at the concept of Viagra I dont see what is so funny about that.

[Disco Pickle]

wasn't Wisconsin the state with the teachers union who tried to get a judge to order the school board to put viagra back on it's prescription drug list at a cost that would have paid for 10 teacher salaries per year?

Milwalkee or Madison I think?  where's my link.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38596955/ns/health-sexual_health/

there's my link. 

Need to get their priorities straight IMO and making themselves look like fools to the public doesn't help their cause.

Erectile dysfunction is a disease. Therefore it should be covered by your jobs healthcare.
Aside from your sophomoric amusement at the concept of Viagra I dont see what is so funny about that.

unless you're using the term really loosely, I believe the word disorder is more appropriate.  And there are multiple treatments for it other than just eating a drug.  But really, just taking a drug is the easiest way to "cure" it so let's spare no expense or effort.  Just medicate it away like the commercials tell you to.

I've already considered the "promotion of general well being" argument and agree, I just think it should be at the person's own expense if they need it, not charged to the public at a cost that would fund the salaries of 10 additional teachers.  While I'm sure it sometimes SEEMS like if you don't have sex, you'll die, that's hardly the reality.

Fighting for collective bargaining sure makes them look like fools.

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

[Luna]

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

That.  Exactly.  If I didn't know, for a fact, that the unions here make demands that would, literally, bankrupt the university, I'd be a lot more patient with them in general.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

We heard what you said.  You said "Unions are bad, and I'm going to pick one example of stupidity and paint them all with that brush."

[Disco Pickle]

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

We heard what you said.  You said "Unions are bad, and I'm going to pick one example of stupidity and paint them all with that brush."

sort of like what you do with anyone to the right of Trotsky?

(I love exaggeration for the sake of an argument)

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

We heard what you said.  You said "Unions are bad, and I'm going to pick one example of stupidity and paint them all with that brush."

sort of like what you do with anyone to the right of Trotsky?

(I love exaggeration for the sake of an argument)

Trotsky was a counter-revolutionary pig, and he had no sense of humor.  He wasn't serious about having a good time.  Stalin tried to help him with that, but he got all butthurt and ran off to Mexico, where he was killed by Ramón Mercader in a fight over a can-can dancer.  Serves the reactionary swine right.

[Disco Pickle]

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

We heard what you said.  You said "Unions are bad, and I'm going to pick one example of stupidity and paint them all with that brush."

sort of like what you do with anyone to the right of Trotsky?

(I love exaggeration for the sake of an argument)

Trotsky was a counter-revolutionary pig, and he had no sense of humor.  He wasn't serious about having a good time.  Stalin tried to help him with that, but he got all butthurt and ran off to Mexico, where he was killed by Ramón Mercader in a fight over a can-can dancer.  Serves the reactionary swine right.

I don't care what anyone says about you Rev.  you're alright.  a right proper mindfuck of a humorist.  I respect that in a person.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Not what I said.  I said what one union has collectively bargained for makes that union look like fools.  They shouldn't have that ability stripped from them, they should use it more wisely. 

We heard what you said.  You said "Unions are bad, and I'm going to pick one example of stupidity and paint them all with that brush."

sort of like what you do with anyone to the right of Trotsky?

(I love exaggeration for the sake of an argument)

Trotsky was a counter-revolutionary pig, and he had no sense of humor.  He wasn't serious about having a good time.  Stalin tried to help him with that, but he got all butthurt and ran off to Mexico, where he was killed by Ramón Mercader in a fight over a can-can dancer.  Serves the reactionary swine right.

I don't care what anyone says about you Rev.  you're alright.  a right proper mindfuck of a humorist.  I respect that in a person.

Tell anyone that, and I'll call you a liar.   

[Cain]

I think the point that regardless of what the Wisconsin Governor does to the unions, he wont be able to fix the deficit, should probably be the central one.

Also, I followed with some amusement on a blog an argument between Standard Libertarians (ie not Kevin Carson) and Marxists, with the latter baiting the former for not supporting the right to free assembly and bargaining etc.  The Libertarians responded that individual bargaining was cool, it was collective bargaining which is the problem.

OK.  So, if we accept that is the case, isn't a company in negotiations with its workers collectively bargaining on behalf of the management and owners/shareholders?  Its not like John Galt is out there on his own against the teeming masses of trade union bargaining officials.  Anyway, just thought I'd share that, as it seemed one of the strangest arguments against unions I've seen in, well, the past several years on the internet, and that includes the theories involving David Icke.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I think the point that regardless of what the Wisconsin Governor does to the unions, he wont be able to fix the deficit, should probably be the central one.

Also, I followed with some amusement on a blog an argument between Standard Libertarians (ie not Kevin Carson) and Marxists, with the latter baiting the former for not supporting the right to free assembly and bargaining etc.  The Libertarians responded that individual bargaining was cool, it was collective bargaining which is the problem.

OK.  So, if we accept that is the case, isn't a company in negotiations with its workers collectively bargaining on behalf of the management and owners/shareholders?  Its not like John Galt is out there on his own against the teeming masses of trade union bargaining officials.  Anyway, just thought I'd share that, as it seemed one of the strangest arguments against unions I've seen in, well, the past several years on the internet, and that includes the theories involving David Icke.

I've been arguing that point for years, Cain.  I'm either told the arrangement is "different" or they just go away.

There's been a few exceptions, though.

[Disco Pickle]

I think the point that regardless of what the Wisconsin Governor does to the unions, he wont be able to fix the deficit, should probably be the central one.

Also, I followed with some amusement on a blog an argument between Standard Libertarians (ie not Kevin Carson) and Marxists, with the latter baiting the former for not supporting the right to free assembly and bargaining etc.  The Libertarians responded that individual bargaining was cool, it was collective bargaining which is the problem.

OK.  So, if we accept that is the case, isn't a company in negotiations with its workers collectively bargaining on behalf of the management and owners/shareholders?  Its not like John Galt is out there on his own against the teeming masses of trade union bargaining officials.  Anyway, just thought I'd share that, as it seemed one of the strangest arguments against unions I've seen in, well, the past several years on the internet, and that includes the theories involving David Icke.

they (the libertarians) made the wrong argument IMO.  collective bargaining in the private sector is different than the public sector.  private sector employees are bargaining for a larger share of profits.  public sector employees are bargaining for a larger piece of the tax base (which is going to buckle under the weight of baby boomer retirement) as government doesn't produce a profit in the classic sense.    They still shouldn't be ham strung on bringing things to the table for negotiation, but they should understand their inherent difference vs private sector unions.

[Requia ☣]

If you want to balance the budget stop cutting taxes when there's already a deficit, don't squeeze people that do a necessary job.