CRAMULUS

[Triple Zero]

What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.

hmmmmmmmmmm wait a minute

there's something ELSE that ties in here that hasn't been mentioned yet.

it's "the AMERICAN DREAM" philosophy.

unsurprisingly, you don't get that very much, outside of America.

basically the American Dream is when you're born lower class, as long as you work very hard, YOU TOO can make it BIG.

first corollary to this is "as long as you're white"
(second corollary to this is "as long as you're very lucky"--aka the American Dream is bullshit)

point is, from that idea, the issue of white lower class people not working their way up into middle/upper class is much less an issue of privilege than it is for non-white lower class people.

my point is, it's still an issue of privilege for white lower class people as well. maybe not as much, but especially here (with a different cultural background of racism), significant enough not to ignore, IMO. I guess that's why it bugs me. From a Discordian point of view I'd rather approach lower class lack of privilege in general, than focus on the race element in it, which is only part of the problem.

IMO.

I hope I didn't say anything too unsensitive in this post.

I'm sure the Netherlands has its own hot buttons! Perhaps you can find them.

Hey, that's a great idea! I'll have to think about this.

[Richter]

My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census.  3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed.  Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."

[Don Coyote]

My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census.  3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed.  Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."

The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census.  3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed.  Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."

The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.

It is never too late to have a happy childhood.

Just saying.

[Cardinal Pizza Deliverance.]

My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census.  3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed.  Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."

The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.

It is never too late to have a happy childhood.

Just saying.

It's true.

[Disco Pickle]

My father, to be funny one year, put in "Swamp Yankee" as the race on our family census.  3 months of phone calls asking about our demographic followed.  Mom finally shut them up by answering all questions with "I cannot discuss this on an unsecured line."

The longer I am on PD.com the more I come to realize how boring my childhood really was.

It is never too late to have a happy childhood.

Just saying.

fuck yes, this.  my childhood didn't even begin to get good until my mid 20's.  It's been a fucking blast ever since.

[Triple Zero]

OMF: not intrinsecally tied to discordianism

whoa, what? the stuff that is being discussed in O:MF is pretty much the entire reason why I googled "discordian forum" in the first place, many years ago (how I arrived here). it's definitely my favourite sub-forum, and wish it was much much more active (even though it's pretty active, MOAR is good :P)

AI: some interest to foreigners, but sometimes it gets flooded with local news that arent of general interest

quite interesting to me, actually. it helps that Cain provides insightful commentary from a not USA-centric view, but news about America, especially where it deals with international matters, is shown on the mainstream news here as well. I like AI for the alternative viewpoints. It's just the local American news that doesn't really interest me.

DC: somewhat like OMF

could possibly be my second favourite subforum

[LMNO]

Hold on... What's "DC"?

[Triple Zero]

Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.

But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?

Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes

*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.

[Disco Pickle]

Hold on... What's "DC"?

the secret forum?  I haven't figured out how to get into it yet..


but I will.  oh yes, I will.

[Triple Zero]

Hold on... What's "DC"?

It's the mean amplitude offset of a waveform. Usually undesirable in recording and audio processing.

It's okay, rather technical term. Understandable you never came across it.

[Triple Zero]

Seriously, I think he was talking about Discordian Recipes, and accidentally abbreviated Discordian Cooking in his head or something, at least that's what I was assuming.

[BabylonHoruv]

What we are discussing here is privilege, which is EXACTLY "an issue I have no control over, and feel I haven't contributed to". But the middle classes reap privilege, including intellectual privilege... the privilege to step outside of "normal" thinking. I grew up very very poor, yet I still reap the benefits of having an educated, white, middle class mother. In the US, race is implicated in class strata, although I think less so than many people believe. That might make me, and several other middle-class black women I know, the recipient of white privilege, although it would be hard to deny that we don't receive the same level of white privilege that a white man does.

hmmmmmmmmmm wait a minute

there's something ELSE that ties in here that hasn't been mentioned yet.

it's "the AMERICAN DREAM" philosophy.

unsurprisingly, you don't get that very much, outside of America.

basically the American Dream is when you're born lower class, as long as you work very hard, YOU TOO can make it BIG.

first corollary to this is "as long as you're white"
(second corollary to this is "as long as you're very lucky"--aka the American Dream is bullshit)

point is, from that idea, the issue of white lower class people not working their way up into middle/upper class is much less an issue of privilege than it is for non-white lower class people.

my point is, it's still an issue of privilege for white lower class people as well. maybe not as much, but especially here (with a different cultural background of racism), significant enough not to ignore, IMO. I guess that's why it bugs me. From a Discordian point of view I'd rather approach lower class lack of privilege in general, than focus on the race element in it, which is only part of the problem.

IMO.

I hope I didn't say anything too unsensitive in this post.

I'm sure the Netherlands has its own hot buttons! Perhaps you can find them.

Hey, that's a great idea! I'll have to think about this.

The American Dream absolutely applies to non-whites as well.  Traditionally they've been a bit better at it, there's a lot of stories of the immigrant who arrived with 10 bucks in his pocket and the shirt on his back and built a successful business with the sweat of his brow.

[BabylonHoruv]

Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.

But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?

Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes

*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.

I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white.  So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish  (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever) 

[hooplala]

Americans are such a blended people that for most of us it doesn't make sense to identify as German or Irish or Zulu or Dahomet or what have you.

But americans seem to me to continuously go on about their partial German, Irish, Greek, Native, Black or whatever heritages?

Of course, that's also simply caused by the fact that in most other places in the world, 95% of the time heritage is not very interesting to talk about. Mostly prompted by discussions here, I decided to ask around in my family. Conclusion: 100% Dutch. Part Frysian, part Groningen--those places are about 200km apart, both in the North. Not even some roots from other parts within NL In other words: booooooring.
While on the other hand, take the average American. There were like tens of different origins coming over from all over the place and naturally* over 200 years they mixed up a lot, so you're going to have an interesting mixed bag of genes

*actually I can't quite explain why this is natural (since it doesn't happen--so much--in Europe), but it happened anyway. Probably because everybody was just as detached and far away from their roots as the other guy, or something.

I've noticed that if you have a group of White Americans discussing ethnic background we tend to identify with whichever part is least white.  So if there's a black great grandparent, that's what we identify as, no blacks, well then we'll identify with that 32nd part Cherokee, without that we're Jewish or Gypsy, None of that then Italian or Irish  (Yeah, Irish are pasty, but they were also treated as second class citizens relatively recently so they count as less white than German or French or whatever) 

All my relatives were albinos, except for Uncle Herman who could tan when he went trout fishing.  And I always did like him best.

So I suppose your theory is not without some merit.