RAEP IS GOOD MAJIK

[E.O.T.]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

          all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

That's got to depend on the circumstances surrounding the rape.  Consensual sex is a common magical component as well, and while it has certain aspects associated with it (fertility, connection, etc) what the intended results of a specific act of magical sex are vary greatly.

In both the Serbian and African cases the rape seems to be tied to growing a nation and military victory and conquest.

Which ties in with the biological imperative that seems to be triggered whenever an invading Army is concerned.

MY IMPRESSION

          is more that the act is more like a sacrifice to the magic source, i guess, rather than as i said, conquest. like in wickerman or something.

[BabylonHoruv]

I hope they lose a bunch of fights right after a batch of rape and that causes them to decide the rape thing isn't such efective magic after all.

[E.O.T.]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

         all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

No, it's not.  It's a justification.  It's a way for those in charge to convince these men who have been in their control since they were kids to perform acts that they know aren't right.  (See the one who said that if he caught someone raping his sister, he wouldn't stand for it.)  "It's okay, it's magic" is pretty much the same as "it's okay to throw rocks at her, God says you should."

THAT'S

          a fair enough point, but that's inferred by you.

[Prince Glittersnatch III]

I hope they lose a bunch of fights right after a batch of rape and that causes them to decide the rape thing isn't such efective magic after all.

Dont you know? Confirmation bias is the foundation of all good magikal practice.... and QUANTUMZ.

[E.O.T.]

(using EOT speak)



OKAY

          We understand that magic is bullshit

AND

          That rape is a monkey-war-power act of violence

PLUS

          The objective ovservance of using Magic as an excuse for Rape is justification (and bullshit)

BUT

          The point here (I think) is to look deeper into the psychological constructs that make such (to us) obvious irrational explanations regarding rape and magic apparently culturally accepted by a large amount of Congolese.  Saying, "its a tactic to get them to do bad things" is true, but it doesn't speak to the main question regarding the culture, mindset and history taking place here.

THIS

[E.O.T.]

Rape is extremely common in conquering Armies, not just in Africa, but Europe and America too. In the first Gulf War, there were many reports of American Soldiers raping women after the fall of Basra. In WWII, one of the reasons the Germans were so quick to surrender to British and American troops, was because they had spent the last year raping their way across Eastern Europe, and they knew they wouldn't get the chance to surrender to the Russians, who had driven them back towards Berlin, because of the atrocities committed.
But the thing is, those men who rape during wartime are not monsters, they're normal, family men who find themselves in the middle of a horrible war. Many of them have difficulty accepting what they've had done, after being demobbed, and while I'm not using this as any kind of justification, it does seem that victory in War, produces some kind of biological imperative in the male of the species, to maximise the spread of his seed. In purely evolutionary terms, these Wartime scenarios are an excellent opportunity for the spreading of the more robust, dominant, genetic strains, which biologically, is good for the species.   As for the "Magic potion" element, people will justify their actions with whatever paradigm is most expedient. In WWII, German Soldiers were led to believe the the Slavic races were "less than human" so it didn't matter. The Russian Army saw it  as one of the spoils of War, and a Soldiers right.  I know it sounds pretty lame, in the cold light of day, but we are talking about Wartime, which tends to throw the rulebook for conventional behavior right out the window.

NO, HONEY

          you need to read the op and responses. this is about magic potion rape, not monkey war.

I read the OP, watched the video, and read the 'magic potion rape' thing as another of the justification mechanisms for the triggered 'rape' behavioral pattern exhibited in Armies.
On reflection, and after watching the freeman vid, I can see that the 'magic potion' rape scenario can also be applied in the Nazi Army's rapefest of eastern Europe, with Meth as the magic potion.
Even the Gulf War/Basra instances could be viewed like this if you take the Drugs given to US (esp) Troops that resulted in Gulf War Syndrome' as being the 'magic potion'.   

IT'S

         the belief system not drug abuse i'm drawing focus to. there's no mention of drugs in the video.

this is kind of contradictory... I'm not following what you're trying to get at, here.

first Badbeast explains himself in terms of belief systems and paradigms, but then you say you don't want to talk about "monkey war" but "magic potion rape".

then Badbeast explains the same thing in terms of magic potions, and suddenly you do a 180 and tell him you want to focus on belief systems, not the drugs.

seems to me like you don't really mind what perspective is taken, as long as it contrasts what happens/happened in the Congo with wars in the rest of the world and human history?

000

          you're taking an agenda perspective. i'm asking really specifically, and i did not 180, for examples of this elsewhere - not that i want that to exist, but does it?

[E.O.T.]

I think he's trying to talk about the artificial map in their heads, not the actual territory.

That is, the physical act of rape and the physical use of drugs is what is actually happening in the real world.

But in their heads, there's some sort of bizarre (to us) world of magic potions and spell casting.  And that's what he wants to find out about.

I think.


EOT, let me know if I'm off base.

EXACTLY

          and, if throughout human history, this specific perspective has been shared.

[E.O.T.]

actually, that's the 2nd link on the page if you just google "rape magic". I think I see where you think you're going with this; I can assure you that EOT is the furthest thing from a rape-racist.

THANK YOU

         

[BadBeast]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

         all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

I'M NOT CERTAIN

         why you'd direct that question to me (?) - i'm not here promoting rape magic, on the contrary i (more or less) started this thread with the question - what the hell is rape magic?

HOWEVER

         an individual may be one thing, like say (generically) some metal head "satanist" committing such an act. what intrigued me about the interview statements is the appearance of a belief system of rape magic, held by a group of individuals, or a collective thought.

This is just a localized Military belief system, one that happens to hold rape as a magical act, in order to . . .well, to rape. There are plenty of other Armys where rape is common, and there is no such belief. So it seems to suggest the common thread is the act itself. The justification just builds itself around local frames of reference. In this case, superstition, reinforced by some potion or ritual. (Doesn't really matter what the word means in this instance)  

[E.O.T.]

"Potion", btw, may be a  mistranslation of "ritual".

Ritual makes more sense, at least in the context that the clip puts it. You get it in other languages too. Irish has a word that can translate as curse, superstition, or some sort of amulet. It could be that rituals there (in Congo) usually use some sort of potion involved, so the word for one can also mean the other.

I AGREE

[E.O.T.]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

         all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

I'M NOT CERTAIN

         why you'd direct that question to me (?) - i'm not here promoting rape magic, on the contrary i (more or less) started this thread with the question - what the hell is rape magic?

HOWEVER

         an individual may be one thing, like say (generically) some metal head "satanist" committing such an act. what intrigued me about the interview statements is the appearance of a belief system of rape magic, held by a group of individuals, or a collective thought.

This is just a localized Military belief system, one that happens to hold rape as a magical act, in order to . . .well, to rape. There are plenty of other Armys where rape is common, and there is no such belief. So it seems to suggest the common thread is the act itself. The justification just builds itself around local frames of reference. In this case, superstition, reinforced by some potion or ritual. (Doesn't really matter what the word means in this instance)  

I DISAGREE

          because i think you're over generalizing

HOWEVER

          i am going to discontinue input at this point, i think this topic is just freakin people out

I BELIEVE

          LMNO gave some direct insight. i've been into/ studied comparative religions for a good twenty years now, just out of personal interest and that's where i'm coming from on this topic. that is all.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I agree with Badbeast, raping the vanquished is purely monkey behaviour. The leaders of any ill-disciplined conscript force know it's going to happen whether they want it to or not so they have two choices - court martial half their army or tart it up with some symbolic bullshit and condone it.

I THINK WE

          all agree with that point (?) - however, the focus i'm drawing attention to is that rape itself is a magical practice not a result of warfare.

So what about singular, non warfare type rape? If the rape itself is a magical act, what is the (supposed) result of the magic?

That's got to depend on the circumstances surrounding the rape.  Consensual sex is a common magical component as well, and while it has certain aspects associated with it (fertility, connection, etc) what the intended results of a specific act of magical sex are vary greatly.

In both the Serbian and African cases the rape seems to be tied to growing a nation and military victory and conquest.

Which ties in with the biological imperative that seems to be triggered whenever an invading Army is concerned.

MY IMPRESSION

          is more that the act is more like a sacrifice to the magic source, i guess, rather than as i said, conquest. like in wickerman or something.

Quid pro quo. Interesting observation.
Right now I'm hoping that some random Congolese Discordian happens upon this forum and sheds some light on this. Highly unlikely, but one can hope.

[Triple Zero]

000

          you're taking an agenda perspective. i'm asking really specifically, and i did not 180, for examples of this elsewhere - not that i want that to exist, but does it?

I dunno, this thread is really weird. And the subject is awful. And there's a strange guy trying to lead the conversation that starts each of his sentences with shouting, followed by a pause, then the rest of his sentence. I don't want to start that again, I know you're okay (from ECh and Nigel and Sig meeting you), but if you're looking for an explanation for my strange reactions, I can't read your posts in my mind in any other way. Simply unable to, and I tried. Just a little reminder that the way you write is still making normal communication between us impossible.

I see a strange man SHOUTing in staccato, trying to lead an awful awful discussion about mass rape and magic.

Have your fun with that, I'm out.

[LMNO]

I've been thinking about this today, while I was fishing. Especially the second video. And how Armies are made. Here, (& in Western Aries generally) we take the recruits, and with an almost formulaic combination of intimidation, grueling physical hardship, and obsessive pointless repetition of Drill, we psychologically break down the recruit, until he is utterly without any value system but the Army's. Then build them up, through training, and attention to detail into tightly knit Units of fighting men, superbly trained, armed, and disciplined. An Warrior Elite system, that rewards competence with Rank and Command. Every part steps in time with every other, and the chain of command keeps everything working in synchronized efficiency. Or that's the idea anyway.

Compare that with the way the Congolese Army is built. Traumatized War Orphans, of perhaps 6 7 years old, are taken in, looked after, fed, and basically brought up by their 'new family', the Army. These kids don't need to be broken down, they are already broken. The Army is everything to them. They learn to use weapons. They get to kill people, to have the power of life and death over just about anybody that isn't their own Army/Tribe. They kill without compunction, or remorse, because it's all that they have ever known. They are accountable to no-one, except to their Brothers in the Army. They have no fear, because they're de-sensitized, having been exposed to horrific levels of violence, right from their earliest memories. They have no knowledge of Women, save for a hazy sense of their dead Mothers, and the stories of the older boys who have been in combat, and know what it is to rape, and kill, and to slay your enemies. Not just with bullets, but by torturing and raping the survivors, they are brutalizing and scarring their enemies head-space, in an act that by it's sheer desecration of everything their enemy is, psychologically damages them.

The  The Mothers they cannot recall, who abandoned them by dying, but whose tits they suckled for their first years, are sublimated as  the Dark Mother, mentioned in the Freeman vid.  They are serving Kali Drga, like the Thuggee Cultists in India,   

"My Enemy's  Blood, for my Dark destroying Mother of ruination! Blood for Kali, Blood of the English"
And the chanting calls of
"Thuggee, thuggee, thugee, (Oi, oi, oi,)"  in the dark Jungles at night, would turn the blood of the Englishman, safe inside his Fortified Palace, to ice in his veins. The Empire, the Army, the Queen, meant fuck all when the strangling Thuggees were hunting for their horrible Skull bedecked, Demon Goddess.   


To all intents and purposes, the raping of the Enemy's women, empowers the victors, and devastates the losers. Which is, I suppose, from one viewpoint, is pretty powerful magics. Especially when their Generals have access to the same kind of Drugs the Nazis used to forge their Super loyal Berserkers, and their SS Werewolf Elite forces. Only stronger.
And an Army that were more polarized than the Nazis. Recruited and trained just like the Hitler Youth. Only far more brutal. More hardened to committing atrocious acts of violence, from an earlier age than the Nazis. But less disciplined, less effective against a modern Army. But they don't have to fight our Armies. As long as they keep it to Africa, they have pretty much whatever they can take.
Look at the Tutsi / Hutu thing in Rwanda. No-one intervened. Or Idi Amin's insane brutalization of post colonial Uganda. Or  Mugabe today. Holding on to power by terrorizing the populace with his Army.

And in Africa, even the climate is enlisted to brutalize the people. The famines, enabled by western aid, ensure a desperately hungry refugee population, who are broken and brutalized, sacrificed to this dark Corn Mother, who withholds her bounty, and watches as people feed her dusty deserts with the blood of their children. Aids, rages across the continent, infecting more readily than anywhere else, a population with no spiritual immune system, no anti Aids drugs, no clean fucking water even! This is where that damage takes them.
Like an abused child, who unknowingly carries the resonance of his abuse ready to visit upon the next generation, ticking like a time bomb in his psyche, Africa sits there. it's size so intimidatingly huge that we scale it down in all our Maps. The Dark Continent. Devils, and superstition ruling people.
We shiver still, not just in fear, but with shame, for our exploitation of her resources. Fearing some new Mau-Mau type rising of all Africa, we keep her suppressed by our Economic Policies. We keep her woefully behind us in all technologies. Her guns are our cast offs. Her diseases and plagues, we withhold the cures from them, while generation after generation die, in Plagues, Famines, and Wars, all instigated and funded by our combined foreign policies. To them, this is magic. . . . . . We are raping them, with Multinationals, Aid Programs, and crippling, never ending debt.   

I suggest we end the thread with this.  It's pretty amazing.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

000

          you're taking an agenda perspective. i'm asking really specifically, and i did not 180, for examples of this elsewhere - not that i want that to exist, but does it?

I dunno, this thread is really weird. And the subject is awful. And there's a strange guy trying to lead the conversation that starts each of his sentences with shouting, followed by a pause, then the rest of his sentence. I don't want to start that again, I know you're okay (from ECh and Nigel and Sig meeting you), but if you're looking for an explanation for my strange reactions, I can't read your posts in my mind in any other way. Simply unable to, and I tried. Just a little reminder that the way you write is still making normal communication between us impossible.

I see a strange man SHOUTing in staccato, trying to lead an awful awful discussion about mass rape and magic.

Have your fun with that, I'm out.

He may be strange, but he's my best friend. If that helps give you any context for his probable attitudes on racism and rape.