OSAMA BIN LADEN CONFIRMED DEAD.

[LMNO]

I think that's what [forgotten who posted it] was getting at in that other thread in AE.  The death of OBL fits neatly into a narrative that started with 9/11, but avoids much of the nuance (and even a lot of facts) about what actually was/is going on.

[Triple Zero]

My question is why lie?

I think you put your finger on it.  It was designed to demoralize AQ.  "Osama wasn't in the hills and caves, boldy suffering for the cause, he was in an expensive compound with his youngest wife.  He then cruelly used her as a human shield when he was attacked."

Rumors, even false rumors easily proved, do damage simply by existing.  Most people are not rational actors, and tend to set their priors based on the first piece of information given, not after a calm review of the facts.  So even though it was proven wrong a day or so later, that was the initial story that many people will base their opinions on. 

Also, if it's proven wrong a few days later, that's a day or two after the peak of the media hype.  Less people are around for the corrected version than for rumoured version.

This and what LMNO and Cain said.

Another reason Obama is smiling is--

--because he's the goddamn Smiler, that's why.

[Cain]

Well, to be fair, GA said it before I did.

[AFK]

Fuck you all I THOUGHT it before EVERYONE!!! 

I thought it before Obama did it. 

Take that!

[The Good Reverend Roger]

Fuck you all I THOUGHT it before EVERYONE!!! 

I thought it before Obama did it. 

Take that!

I thought it before it was popular.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My question is why lie?

I think you put your finger on it.  It was designed to demoralize AQ.  "Osama wasn't in the hills and caves, boldy suffering for the cause, he was in an expensive compound with his youngest wife.  He then cruelly used her as a human shield when he was attacked."

Rumors, even false rumors easily proved, do damage simply by existing.  Most people are not rational actors, and tend to set their priors based on the first piece of information given, not after a calm review of the facts.  So even though it was proven wrong a day or so later, that was the initial story that many people will base their opinions on. 

Hmmm, that actually makes sense. Make him out to be spoiled and benefitting from a wealthy lifestyle, and to also behave in a cowardly manner when facing death, even though he'd sent countless others to fight and die and live in hiding under deprived conditions.

[Miss Demeanor]

My question is why lie?

I think you put your finger on it.  It was designed to demoralize AQ.  "Osama wasn't in the hills and caves, boldy suffering for the cause, he was in an expensive compound with his youngest wife.  He then cruelly used her as a human shield when he was attacked."

Rumors, even false rumors easily proved, do damage simply by existing.  Most people are not rational actors, and tend to set their priors based on the first piece of information given, not after a calm review of the facts.  So even though it was proven wrong a day or so later, that was the initial story that many people will base their opinions on. 

Hmmm, that actually makes sense. Make him out to be spoiled and benefitting from a wealthy lifestyle, and to also behave in a cowardly manner when facing death, even though he'd sent countless others to fight and die and live in hiding under deprived conditions.

Instead of a martyr, OBL becomes an object of derision & ridicule.  Gotta love the spin & propaganda that creates.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

My question is why lie?

I think you put your finger on it.  It was designed to demoralize AQ.  "Osama wasn't in the hills and caves, boldy suffering for the cause, he was in an expensive compound with his youngest wife.  He then cruelly used her as a human shield when he was attacked."

Rumors, even false rumors easily proved, do damage simply by existing.  Most people are not rational actors, and tend to set their priors based on the first piece of information given, not after a calm review of the facts.  So even though it was proven wrong a day or so later, that was the initial story that many people will base their opinions on. 

Hmmm, that actually makes sense. Make him out to be spoiled and benefitting from a wealthy lifestyle, and to also behave in a cowardly manner when facing death, even though he'd sent countless others to fight and die and live in hiding under deprived conditions.

Instead of a martyr, OBL becomes an object of derision & ridicule.  Gotta love the spin & propaganda that creates.

It really is brilliant. Creating resentment among Al-Quaida against their fallen leader, instead of outrage at his death... it will make it harder for them to be motivated toward retaliation.

[Cain]

Of course, if they had put him on trial, the same effect would have been achieved, without the lying.  Instead of looking serene on some mountain, he'd be a crazy old Arab spewing hateful conspiracy theories in the dock.  This goes for most AQ members, in fact.

And AQ wont trust the US version of events anyway.  This is propaganda to please the home crowd, nothing more.

[The Commander]

I suspect it's really just a matter of confusion in the initial reporting.  I've done some debriefings of A-10 pilots when I was in Afghanistan, and often what they say they remember happening does not always mesh perfectly with what the on board video recorders show happened.  I imagine this effect is even more intense when you are dealing with an on the ground firefight.  The initial reporting probably said one thing, but was clarified after the fact. there might be a bit of an element of propaganda going on, but I doubt the answer is really that complicated.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I suspect it's really just a matter of confusion in the initial reporting.  I've done some debriefings of A-10 pilots when I was in Afghanistan, and often what they say they remember happening does not always mesh perfectly with what the on board video recorders show happened.  I imagine this effect is even more intense when you are dealing with an on the ground firefight.  The initial reporting probably said one thing, but was clarified after the fact. there might be a bit of an element of propaganda going on, but I doubt the answer is really that complicated.

Eye witness testimony is and has always been utter crap.

[The Commander]

I suspect it's really just a matter of confusion in the initial reporting.  I've done some debriefings of A-10 pilots when I was in Afghanistan, and often what they say they remember happening does not always mesh perfectly with what the on board video recorders show happened.  I imagine this effect is even more intense when you are dealing with an on the ground firefight.  The initial reporting probably said one thing, but was clarified after the fact. there might be a bit of an element of propaganda going on, but I doubt the answer is really that complicated.

Eye witness testimony is and has always been utter crap.

Amen brother.

[Thurnez Isa]

Another change in the story

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-killing-us-story-change

Brennan said on Monday: "We were able to monitor in a real-time basis the progress of the operation from its commencement to its time on target to the extraction of the remains and to then the egress off of the target... we were able to monitor the situation in real time and were able to have regular updates and to ensure that we had real-time visibility into the progress of the operation. I'm not going to go into details about what type of visuals we had or what type of feeds that were there, but it was – it gave us the ability to actually track it on an ongoing basis."

How the story changed

Carney said on Tuesday the updates were "minute-by-minute" and "they were looking at and listening to those updates". CIA director Leon Panetta told PBS on Tuesday: "Once those teams went into the compound, I can tell you that there was a time period of almost 20 or 25 minutes that we really didn't know just exactly what was going on."

The above link goes through all the changes so far

also

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-daughter-held

Osama bin Laden's 12-year-old daughter watched as her father was shot dead by American special forces, a senior Pakistani intelligence official has told the Guardian.

The girl, who was found at the scene of the raid by Pakistani security services, is being cared for at a military hospital having been wounded in the attack. She has been questioned about the sequence of events during the raid on Sunday night.

The official said Pakistani intelligence services, who are holding 11 other survivors of the deadly raid on Bin Laden's Pakistani hiding place, would not allow their interrogation by US officials...

Instead, only the bodies of Bin Laden and his son Hamza, who was in his early 20s, were taken to the aircraft carrier the USS Carl Vinson and buried at sea. Survivors were left with their hands fastened with plastic handcuffs, a second Pakistani official said, adding that initial communications with the survivors had been difficult as the Pakistani police and military arriving at the scene did not speak Arabic.

Four bodies are understood to have been recovered by Pakistani officials from the compound, including those of the two brothers – who have been reported to be behind the construction and management of the house. One is believed to be the crucial courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, who inadvertently led the CIA to Bin Laden. A third body was that of one of the brother's wives. The other casualty is believed to be a guard who has yet to be identified or possibly a domestic servant.

Several of the survivors, including Bin Laden's wife, were injured in the 40-minute firefight that preceded the al-Qaida leader's death.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

To be fair, even with streaming video and updates, they probably had no idea what was going on, because even the guys on the ground had almost no idea what was happening.

Things get confusing when people start throwing lead around.

[Luna]

To be fair, even with streaming video and updates, they probably had no idea what was going on, because even the guys on the ground had almost no idea what was happening.

Things get confusing when people start throwing lead around.

Also, quite likely that it was hard to tell who was who when the bullets were flying around, with what was probably an iffy video feed.