Prison Bans Books and Disco Pickle Learns a Lesson

[Bebek Sincap Ratatosk]

If our system was "OK" I could see Pickle's argument... but its demonstratively not even 'OK'.  Claiming "its not perfect, but it works" seems like a head in the sand response.

[Adios]

"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer," said
English jurist William Blackstone. The ratio 10:1, now known as the "Blackstone
ratio," expresses the classic Anglo-American ideas of the presumption of
innocence and (insofar as the statement speaks of "guilt," "conviction,"
"imprisonment," and the like) the burden of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt"
that prevails in criminal law.
http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1016&context=alexander_volokh&sei-redir=1#search=%22it+is+better+to+let+10+guilty+men+go+free%22

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I saw an article a few months ago that said they were actually closing prisons in the Netherlands because they didn't have enough inmates. That would never happen here, we just build more and find ways of overcrowding them.
When you subtract the wrongfully convicted people, the people convicted of consensual so-called "crimes", the driving-while-black and similar, how many are left? You probably COULD let them out and the resulting crime wouldn't be a fraction of the horrorshow created by the court system.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I often forget that you don't actually want to help, or at the least your idea of helping would likely be to just let everyone out and start over from the beginning.  

wat

wouldn't that create the lulz, chaos and disorder you so adore?

No, I think the lulz, chaos, and disorder is doing quite nicely, thank you.  I don't expect you to understand.  Hell, anyone other than RCH, LMNO, Richter, Nigel, and Payne¹ that say they DO understand is either confused or lying.  It's certainly not something I'd expect an objectivist to comprehend, because your heads are full of bad signal and a pile of the wrong values.  You've already found something to believe in, so you don't need The World As It Really Is.

No, I think it's better that you comfort yourself with the notion that all the people who got ground up in the system just made bad choices, choices that a fine young Randite like yourself would never make.  And you can keep congratulating yourself, as you continue burrowing your head up your arse in search of the light that must surely eventually be there.



¹  There are plenty of people who understand Discordianism, but only a few that truly understand Doom.

[LMNO]

If our system was "OK" I could see Pickle's argument... but its demonstratively not even 'OK'.  Claiming "its not perfect, but it works" seems like a head in the sand response.

Well, it does work, if you conclude the the point of the modern US legal system is to widen the cultural and economic gulf in order to strengthen the upper class while disempowering the poor, and frightening the middle class into passing more stringent laws.

[Adios]

I saw an article a few months ago that said they were actually closing prisons in the Netherlands because they didn't have enough inmates. That would never happen here, we just build more and find ways of overcrowding them.
When you subtract the wrongfully convicted people, the people convicted of consensual so-called "crimes", the driving-while-black and similar, how many are left? You probably COULD let them out and the resulting crime wouldn't be a fraction of the horrorshow created by the court system.

Big Business™ called, they want you dead.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If our system was "OK" I could see Pickle's argument... but its demonstratively not even 'OK'.  Claiming "its not perfect, but it works" seems like a head in the sand response.

And as for those people ground into hamburger by this "working" system, well, it was a decision.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

If our system was "OK" I could see Pickle's argument... but its demonstratively not even 'OK'.  Claiming "its not perfect, but it works" seems like a head in the sand response.

Well, it does work, if you conclude the the point of the modern US legal system is to widen the cultural and economic gulf in order to strengthen the upper class while disempowering the poor, and frightening the middle class into passing more stringent laws.

Well, this is the beauty of objectivism.  All objectivists are pre-rich...So, through the power of the Free Market™ and the divine intercession of Horatio Alger, all objectivists will be rich magnates that don't have to concern themselves about what happens to people who made the decision to be poor.

[Disco Pickle]

I often forget that you don't actually want to help, or at the least your idea of helping would likely be to just let everyone out and start over from the beginning.  

wat

How does it feel to have words stuffed in your mouth?

Even if the true error rate of America's criminal justice system is only ten percent, this translates to 200,000 innocent people presently behind bars in the United States. It means that there are more innocent prisoners in America than there are prisoners of all kinds in France, Germany and Britain combined.

That's not accurate at all.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

I saw an article a few months ago that said they were actually closing prisons in the Netherlands because they didn't have enough inmates. That would never happen here, we just build more and find ways of overcrowding them.
When you subtract the wrongfully convicted people, the people convicted of consensual so-called "crimes", the driving-while-black and similar, how many are left? You probably COULD let them out and the resulting crime wouldn't be a fraction of the horrorshow created by the court system.

Big Business™ called, they want you dead.

That probably beats building missiles in Huntsville.

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I often forget that you don't actually want to help, or at the least your idea of helping would likely be to just let everyone out and start over from the beginning.  

wat

How does it feel to have words stuffed in your mouth?

Even if the true error rate of America's criminal justice system is only ten percent, this translates to 200,000 innocent people presently behind bars in the United States. It means that there are more innocent prisoners in America than there are prisoners of all kinds in France, Germany and Britain combined.

That's not accurate at all.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

WTF?  That shows crimes committed, not people in prison.

[Disco Pickle]

I often forget that you don't actually want to help, or at the least your idea of helping would likely be to just let everyone out and start over from the beginning.  

wat

How does it feel to have words stuffed in your mouth?

Even if the true error rate of America's criminal justice system is only ten percent, this translates to 200,000 innocent people presently behind bars in the United States. It means that there are more innocent prisoners in America than there are prisoners of all kinds in France, Germany and Britain combined.

Meanwhile, rates of violent crime have been plummeting for over 20 years, but the incarceration rate has skyrocketed.

But the disco pickle is around the bend, now. He's not even responding to the people here, he's just frothing at the mouth and ranting.

while violent crime has been decreasing since the 90's, due to the War on Drugs and the laws that came with it in the 80's, yes, we're incarcerating a shit ton of people for drug offenses.  This was discussed earlier in the thread.

[Adios]

I often forget that you don't actually want to help, or at the least your idea of helping would likely be to just let everyone out and start over from the beginning.  

wat

How does it feel to have words stuffed in your mouth?

Even if the true error rate of America's criminal justice system is only ten percent, this translates to 200,000 innocent people presently behind bars in the United States. It means that there are more innocent prisoners in America than there are prisoners of all kinds in France, Germany and Britain combined.

That's not accurate at all.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

WTF?  That shows crimes committed, not people in prison.

Damn those pesky facts all to hell!

[Anna Mae Bollocks]

while violent crime has been decreasing since the 90's, due to the War on Drugs and the laws that came with it in the 80's

Again: wat?

[The Good Reverend Roger]

I often forget that you don't actually want to help, or at the least your idea of helping would likely be to just let everyone out and start over from the beginning.  

wat

How does it feel to have words stuffed in your mouth?

Even if the true error rate of America's criminal justice system is only ten percent, this translates to 200,000 innocent people presently behind bars in the United States. It means that there are more innocent prisoners in America than there are prisoners of all kinds in France, Germany and Britain combined.

Meanwhile, rates of violent crime have been plummeting for over 20 years, but the incarceration rate has skyrocketed.

But the disco pickle is around the bend, now. He's not even responding to the people here, he's just frothing at the mouth and ranting.

while violent crime has been decreasing since the 90's, due to the War on Drugs and the laws that came with it in the 80's, yes, we're incarcerating a shit ton of people for drug offenses.  This was discussed earlier in the thread.

Ah, so the people who SHOULDN'T be in prison don't count, and it's all good.