Prison Bans Books and Disco Pickle Learns a Lesson

[Requia ☣]

again, it's never going to be a perfect system.  ever.

Then why the hell are you OK with harsh punishments?

[Phox]

You're obviously intent on ignoring the REALITY of our legal system in favor of some Houghton-Mifflin 6th grade civics class textbook.

Wait a minute....

[Disco Pickle]

Stopped right there. For this reason, your opinion cannot be taken seriously. Them's the breaks.

then please, tell me all you know of causality and how it relates to humans and their actions, their election of lawmakers, and the enforcement and adjudication of laws in this country.  

I'd like just one example of a human doing something that could be ever be thought of as being "random"

If that sounds dickish, it's not intended.  I really am learning from you guys.  I'm not just some "right wing nutjob" as the good Rev. insists.

Causality? Whatcha want? Deontological philosophy? Sorry, I've seen enough to figure out that there isn't a grand set of rules to follow in terms of human behavior. Predictable patterns of behavior don't exist, because if they did, deviations would be far rarer and there wouldn't be so many variables that affect it. As for the election of lawmakers and the enforcement and adjudication of laws in this country? Fuck, I could pay off the cops in this town with what's in my pocket, a smile, and a short skirt and get off scott free for anything short of murder. Faith in the system? Not me.

If predictable patterns of behavior didn't exist then car insurance companies would be right proper fucked.  I believe there's another thread about this sort of thing that Nigel started.

while I've no doubt and even evidence that happens here, it's hardly on par with a country like say Mexico, where a $20 got me out of a potentially bad situation and another one got me over the border from Belize.  

So you must have lost faith in any system devised by humans.  

I believe I'm starting to really understand now.  It's terrifying btw.

No, no. You tell me how to figure out what these morons are doing. You tell me how to avoid getting hit by a snow plow. You tell me how that guy with that gun in that poor woman's face is going to react if he sees me looking at him. You tell me whether or not that state trooper is going to pull me over for swerving slightly. You tell me when that cyclist plans on illegally turning into the crosswalk without so much as a courtesy brake. What's the secret, Pickles? I'd like a complete list of rules for human behavior, if you please. Hell, I'd like it if you don't please.

that's the problem, you can't predict what someone ELSE will do.  That was never what I was contending.  In any "event" that involves humans, you can trace back to a particular reason for the even occurring.  At this level of reality, randomness, true randomness just does not occur.

Fuck, I thought we were talking about law.

[Telarus]

1) THE system is actually 2 systems. 1 for those with fame/money (we only see the fame one, see example), and one for those without.

example: Willie Nelson got out of possession charges earlier this year by singing the judge's favorite song to him. See also, Paris Hilton.


2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-long-con/Content?oid=7989613

[Disco Pickle]

again, it's never going to be a perfect system.  ever.

Then why the hell are you OK with harsh punishments?

because people can and do do horrible things to each other, and those who do should IMO face some form of consequence for their action.

flawed or not, if we didn't deal out harsh punishment, where's the incentive to NOT do horrible things?

this is basic shit.  Parenting for example, and I've already admitted I know shit all about parenting but I know this: threat of punishment doesn't stop someone from doing something others would consider wrong.   Guarantee of punishment goes a lot farther.

[Disco Pickle]

1) THE system is actually 2 systems. 1 for those with fame/money (we only see the fame one, see example), and one for those without.

example: Willie Nelson got out of possession charges earlier this year by singing the judge's favorite song to him. See also, Paris Hilton.


2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-long-con/Content?oid=7989613

You're talking about privileged law, something I'm completely against.  Tell me how you'd remove it and I'll back it.

2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

There have always been bad cops, going back over the entirety of civilization.  We created Internal Affairs to help with this.  I'm not convinced it will ever be a perfect system either.

[Telarus]

That tells me you didn't read the fucking article. The under-cover agent who entrapped people GOT A FUCKING MEDAL FOR IT.


"There'll always be some bad cops", my ASS.

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

1) THE system is actually 2 systems. 1 for those with fame/money (we only see the fame one, see example), and one for those without.

example: Willie Nelson got out of possession charges earlier this year by singing the judge's favorite song to him. See also, Paris Hilton.


2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-long-con/Content?oid=7989613

You're talking about privileged law, something I'm completely against.  Tell me how you'd remove it and I'll back it.

2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

There have always been bad cops, going back over the entirety of civilization.  We created Internal Affairs to help with this.  I'm not convinced it will ever be a perfect system either.

You didn't read the article. That was an entire corrupt department, backed by an entire corrupt system.

[Disco Pickle]

The only difference between here and a place like Mexico is that in the good old US of A, you need to add an extra zero or three to the bribe amount.

Now stop flapping your gums as though you even have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about, please. You're obviously intent on ignoring the REALITY of our legal system in favor of some Houghton-Mifflin 6th grade civics class textbook.

Sorry, missed this.  I've actually accepted the reality, and mentioned that often, while the discussion with everyone else has seemed to be "Law  enforcement in the United States is bad but we have no alternatives to present."

I'd still gladly welcome a change in my perspective on this.

[Requia ☣]

The only difference between here and a place like Mexico is that in the good old US of A, you need to add an extra zero or three to the bribe amount.

Now stop flapping your gums as though you even have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about, please. You're obviously intent on ignoring the REALITY of our legal system in favor of some Houghton-Mifflin 6th grade civics class textbook.

Sorry, missed this.  I've actually accepted the reality, and mentioned that often, while the discussion with everyone else has seemed to be "Law  enforcement in the United States is bad but we have no alternatives to present."

I'd still gladly welcome a change in my perspective on this.

To start with, don't accept bullshit justifications for how prisoners are treated based on the idea that they're guilty.

[Phox]

1) THE system is actually 2 systems. 1 for those with fame/money (we only see the fame one, see example), and one for those without.

example: Willie Nelson got out of possession charges earlier this year by singing the judge's favorite song to him. See also, Paris Hilton.


2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/the-long-con/Content?oid=7989613

You're talking about privileged law, something I'm completely against.  Tell me how you'd remove it and I'll back it.

2) DP, you really REALLY need to read this article on how the FBI and the local police stalked and entrapped the (ex)lead singer for ¡Tchkung! (the noise/arachinst band from a few years back), Rick Wilson. This is standard operating procedure, for the reasons the LEOs at the end of the article are quoted giving.

There have always been bad cops, going back over the entirety of civilization.  We created Internal Affairs to help with this.  I'm not convinced it will ever be a perfect system either.

You didn't read the article. That was an entire corrupt department, backed by an entire corrupt system.

Badabing.

The only difference between here and a place like Mexico is that in the good old US of A, you need to add an extra zero or three to the bribe amount.

Now stop flapping your gums as though you even have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about, please. You're obviously intent on ignoring the REALITY of our legal system in favor of some Houghton-Mifflin 6th grade civics class textbook.

Sorry, missed this.  I've actually accepted the reality, and mentioned that often, while the discussion with everyone else has seemed to be "Law  enforcement in the United States is bad but we have no alternatives to present."

I'd still gladly welcome a change in my perspective on this.

Alternatives? How about a system that isn't pay-to-play?

[Disco Pickle]

That tells me you didn't read the fucking article. The under-cover agent who entrapped people GOT A FUCKING MEDAL FOR IT.


"There'll always be some bad cops", my ASS.

reading now, but the subtext of the title disqualifies it from this discussion as I was and am still talking about crimes against person and property and those who commit those crimes.

reading anyway.

[EDIT] alright, so we are talking about corruption at the executive level, so still relevant.  That's what informed and attentive oversight is meant to help prevent.  If the entire fucking CITY is in on it, move to another city and let that one fester. 

[Thurnez Isa]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

[Mesozoic Mister Nigel]

That tells me you didn't read the fucking article. The under-cover agent who entrapped people GOT A FUCKING MEDAL FOR IT.


"There'll always be some bad cops", my ASS.

reading now, but the subtext of the title disqualifies it from this discussion as I was and am still talking about crimes against person and property and those who commit those crimes.

reading anyway.

Yes, because the only people in prison are those who committed crimes against person or property?  How do you even begin to justify your contribution to this thread?

[Disco Pickle]

How about a system where we exploit prisoners as if they are slave labor, we have harsh punishments, and we just shrug our shoulders that being arrested is a "choice"?

dishonest argument.  I said committing a crime is a choice.