Some simple facts about the future people would rather not face

[Kai]

Well, it's more like our grandkids are pretty much screwed. It's doubtful that we'll live long enough to see the climate change hit the "irreversible and totally catastrophic to human life" point.

I think we will see it.  The problem is not mere climate change in the "carbon = bad" sense.  It seems to me that recent volcanic activity has far outstripped our industrial activities in that kind of output.  I do not claim to know WHY the climate is changing, but it obviously is, and quickly.

The slow poison released by human industry will bring the human catastrophes.  We have produced compounds and even mutant atoms that nature would never have developed without humanity.  They are part of the systems on this planet now whether or not their introduction was accidental, planned, or incidental.  The impact of these substances is often subtle, but can be dramatic over time.  It is our poisons and the synergistic effect of natural and man made disasters that will bring us down, I think.  I also think some of will adapt in unexpected ways, but that's more of a faith statement.

I hate it when people who know exactly fuck-all about the subject feel the need to throw their two cents in.

Your opinion has been noted and given all the consideration that it merits.

Now, if you want to deal in FACTS rather than your half-baked ill-informed opinions, it's pretty evident given the current data that if something pretty drastic doesn't change in the way our energy economy works, we (that's humans, not volcanoes) will cause atmospheric CO2 levels to rise above 600ppm sometime around the turn of the century. All current scientific models point to 600ppm as being the threshold after which climate change will become a self-sustaining feedback loop ultimately causing an anoxic event to occur in the world ocean and more than likely causing a mass extinction on the level of the Permian-Triassic extinction.

You're right, I'm not totally informed. 
I only seems to me that the changes we WILL face are made much worse by our other forms of waste. 
I think CO2 is a major factor, and I don't know much about this 600ppm feedback and anoxic event you're talking about. 
I'll look into it as well as I can before giving an opinion again. 
Does this data and model you mention indicate increasing weather severity and extraordinary pattern change before the threshold is reached?

You THINK CO2 is a major factor. As in, it could be but I don't really have planetary evidence except maybe you know, VENUS.

Humans are freeing a fuckload of insulating gas into the atmosphere, carbon that has been sequestered for the past 300 million years in rock. This is significantly elevated CO2 levels we're talking about here, carbon that died, flattened beneath rock and would have fucking stayed there if humans hadn't dug it up and started burning it. Carbon dioxide becomes a weak acid, carbonic acid, when in contact with water; so higher levels of CO2 means more acidic water. Hm...I wonder why coral reefs are doing so badly? Oh RIGHT, they're made of fucking BASES. In addition, increased CO2 levels (and this has been shown experimentally) causes increased photosynthesis. Which isn't such a big problem on land, but in water you'll get huge algal blooms, often toxic. Which then seasonally die off, which is where the real problem comes in. Everything gets eaten, yes? Well, all that plant matter gets chowed on by oxygenic bacteria, until the oxygen is depleted (at which point the ocean is essentially dead), and then the anaerobic bacteria start in, with the waste product of sulfur rich gasses. Join that to increased sea level from melting of continental ice caps (mostly Greenland and Antarctica), and other possible suck in the form of shifting climatic patterns, and you've got a whole pile of oh my fucking god just kill me already.

And if you think about it enough, you'll become enlightened, by which I mean, committed. 

[Kai]

Okay, okay. I admit, I've been getting majorly depressed over this, and it's driving me more than a little nuts.

Worst case scenario: A second Great Dying. Ecosystem recovery doesn't start for 4 million years. Probably full recovery doesn't come until another 25-30, depending on how fast the CO2 levels decrease after industrial civilization falls apart. Previous increases were mostly vulcanogenic, so it's possible the levels will decrease faster.

So, four million years of shit, and possibly 25-30 more of recovery. Humans are generally ingenious about surviving in various climates, so I expect at least some to survive assuming it's not /worse/ than the P-T.

In my mind, theres a hell of a lot of information that needs to be saved and archived before this happens. Cultural and biological information. Assuming humans have 4 million years to prepare, that's plenty of time to perfect tissue/organismal cloning and biomanipulation. There will still be plenty of solar energy to gather, and wind, assuming the knowledge on building eletromagnets is not lost. Repositories such as archives, libraries, natural history museums, biobanks, these will become extremely important.

And all these thoughts are just to keep my brain from falling apart right now, because I do plan on living forever or to die trying. I do not look forward to 4 million years of desert.


Also, seed repositories. Very very important for continued human survival in various climates.

[P3nT4gR4m]

If anyone other than you told be they planned to live forever I'd laugh in their face but you are the ultimate pragmatist so I'll ask. What do you know that I don't? Cryonics or something?

[Kai]

If anyone other than you told be they planned to live forever I'd laugh in their face but you are the ultimate pragmatist so I'll ask. What do you know that I don't? Cryonics or something?

No. I just decided I was going to live forever in a sort of "do or do not" mentality. If the technology comes on, I'll take it. Until then I'll just live well. And it comes with a different mentality. No retirement if I'm going to live forever. No retirement homes, no resigning myself to an autoscooter. 65, 70, 100, I'll still be living as I was at 30 assuming I'm not dead, which is something I'm going to be avoiding.

[Kai]

Or more simply: How do I live forever?

1. Wake up tomorrow morning.

2. Repeat unto infinity. 

[P3nT4gR4m]

As a biologist you must realise that that's going to take you to what, 150 at the extreme outside? For a whole bunch of reasons that you could prolly lecture me on. So if you're serious about this you must be looking to tech? Anything interesting on the horizon?

[Bruno]

Goji berries, bro.

[Kai]

As a biologist you must realise that that's going to take you to what, 150 at the extreme outside? For a whole bunch of reasons that you could prolly lecture me on. So if you're serious about this you must be looking to tech? Anything interesting on the horizon?

I'm not looking into any tech right now because I don't need any tech right now. I do know that there are a number of experiments in growing various organs and building artificial ones. At this point, if you don't die from a cancer or an accident, or a brain deterioration, cardiovascular failure is right there at the top. But like I said, I'm not really looking into it right now because I'm not forseeing I'll be needing a new heart in the next 40 years. Maybe when I'm 60, I'll start thinking about it. In the meantime, I don't really feel a need to drink or smoke, or rub myself in motor oil.

[Kai]

But this thread isn't about life extension, it's about the big fucking disasters looming on the horizon. Seriously.

[P3nT4gR4m]

But this thread isn't about life extension, it's about the big fucking disasters looming on the horizon. Seriously.

Yeah but it's the distant horizon. Try as I might I just can't get upset about it. Although that is coming from a position of someone who has 20-30 years left here, tops. I got much more immediate concerns.

[Kai]

But this thread isn't about life extension, it's about the big fucking disasters looming on the horizon. Seriously.

Yeah but it's the distant horizon. Try as I might I just can't get upset about it. Although that is coming from a position of someone who has 20-30 years left here, tops. I got much more immediate concerns.

Depends on what's ailing you. If its your heart, this (http://www.metro.co.uk/news/866619-doctors-test-beatless-artificial-heart-on-a-human-for-the-first-time) is pretty cool. Again, not thread relevant.

[Triple Zero]

Tentacalium is my favorite mutant atom.

What's that? I tried googling it, but got no hits.

[Bruno]

Tentacalium is my favorite mutant atom.

What's that? I tried googling it, but got no hits.

It's the one with tentacles.

[Triple Zero]

well, then we're fucked. forever.

[Don Coyote]

Well, it's more like our grandkids are pretty much screwed. It's doubtful that we'll live long enough to see the climate change hit the "irreversible and totally catastrophic to human life" point.

I think we will see it.  The problem is not mere climate change in the "carbon = bad" sense.  It seems to me that recent volcanic activity has far outstripped our industrial activities in that kind of output.  I do not claim to know WHY the climate is changing, but it obviously is, and quickly.

The slow poison released by human industry will bring the human catastrophes.  We have produced compounds and even mutant atoms that nature would never have developed without humanity.  They are part of the systems on this planet now whether or not their introduction was accidental, planned, or incidental.  The impact of these substances is often subtle, but can be dramatic over time.  It is our poisons and the synergistic effect of natural and man made disasters that will bring us down, I think.  I also think some of will adapt in unexpected ways, but that's more of a faith statement.

I hate it when people who know exactly fuck-all about the subject feel the need to throw their two cents in.

Your opinion has been noted and given all the consideration that it merits.

Now, if you want to deal in FACTS rather than your half-baked ill-informed opinions, it's pretty evident given the current data that if something pretty drastic doesn't change in the way our energy economy works, we (that's humans, not volcanoes) will cause atmospheric CO2 levels to rise above 600ppm sometime around the turn of the century. All current scientific models point to 600ppm as being the threshold after which climate change will become a self-sustaining feedback loop ultimately causing an anoxic event to occur in the world ocean and more than likely causing a mass extinction on the level of the Permian-Triassic extinction.

You're right, I'm not totally informed. 
I only seems to me that the changes we WILL face are made much worse by our other forms of waste. 
I think CO2 is a major factor, and I don't know much about this 600ppm feedback and anoxic event you're talking about. 
I'll look into it as well as I can before giving an opinion again. 
Does this data and model you mention indicate increasing weather severity and extraordinary pattern change before the threshold is reached?

You THINK CO2 is a major factor. As in, it could be but I don't really have planetary evidence except maybe you know, VENUS.

Humans are freeing a fuckload of insulating gas into the atmosphere, carbon that has been sequestered for the past 300 million years in rock. This is significantly elevated CO2 levels we're talking about here, carbon that died, flattened beneath rock and would have fucking stayed there if humans hadn't dug it up and started burning it. Carbon dioxide becomes a weak acid, carbonic acid, when in contact with water; so higher levels of CO2 means more acidic water. Hm...I wonder why coral reefs are doing so badly? Oh RIGHT, they're made of fucking BASES. In addition, increased CO2 levels (and this has been shown experimentally) causes increased photosynthesis. Which isn't such a big problem on land, but in water you'll get huge algal blooms, often toxic. Which then seasonally die off, which is where the real problem comes in. Everything gets eaten, yes? Well, all that plant matter gets chowed on by oxygenic bacteria, until the oxygen is depleted (at which point the ocean is essentially dead), and then the anaerobic bacteria start in, with the waste product of sulfur rich gasses. Join that to increased sea level from melting of continental ice caps (mostly Greenland and Antarctica), and other possible suck in the form of shifting climatic patterns, and you've got a whole pile of oh my fucking god just kill me already.

And if you think about it enough, you'll become enlightened, by which I mean, committed. 

Why is SCIENCE both depressing and illuminating?