ATTN: LMNO PEE: I IZ TOO STOOPID TO "GET" AUTECHRE

[navkat]

I was born with a natural ear and (from what I've been told) perfect pitch (I used to hum the dishwasher, cars and refrigerator as a child)

Not that this adds anything to the discussion. Are you sure about the above?

Generally, absolute pitch implies some or all of the following abilities when done without reference to an external standard:[4]

    Identify by name individual pitches (e.g. A, B, C♯) played on various instruments
    Name the key of a given piece of tonal music just by listening (without reference to an external tone)
    Identify and name all the tones of a given chord or other tonal mass
    Accurately sing a given pitch without an external reference
    Name the pitches of common everyday noises such as car horns


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

My niece is an opera singer with Perfect (or Absolute pitch). Her choir director uses her voice as a reference to tune the rest of the choir. She can identify any note you play and can reproduce any note you ask her to sing.

Not that this has anything to do with aesthetics, definitions of art etc. But I thought I'd ask.

No, I am not sure about the above. As far as the correct definition goes, I can't name the note because I'm untrained. I've known for some time I have an ear that transcends that of those around me and for years, I believed this was just a quirky side effect of being smarter than those around me. I could never understand why people would hum the wrong notes or "forget" a song's melody in recall when the sounds were so clear in my own head...like aural photographic memory. I could "hone in" and hum the strangest mechanical noises and annoy the shit out of caretakers who would giggle at first and then scream "STOP THAT" after I began to switch to different "notes" in the harmonic sound of the refrigerator or leaf blower or whatev.

I have no formal training. I'm also not as good at vocally reproducing sounds as I once was simply because the equipment (larynx) is unpracticed and getting older. I can still hear if I'm off and I can hear what the note is supposed to be if I crack and miss it.

I have a note that's "my" note. It's the same every time. When I wake up in the morning, I will hum the same note as when I went to bed. I've tested this with a voice recorder.

I don't know what that means. I assume it's the raw materials needed for perfect pitch if only I'd been allowed to explore it in younger years.

[navkat]

Oh, Lord.  Hipster Runoff.  What a wanker.

Anyway, there isn't really much to "get" about the track, if you take the process of how it was created off the table.

- It lacks structure
- It lacks melody
- It lacks rhythm
- It uses various kinds of digital distortion
- The distortion leads to a lot of piercing high frequencies

So the end result is a track that is both completely unpredictable (which can challenge/please the brain) and also repeatable (by hitting play again).  Which means you can get to a point where you're pretty sure what's coming next, but the amount of information being presented makes it difficult to predict with complete accuracy (which again, challenges/pleases the brain).

Have you heard any of Eno's Music For Airports?  It's similar to the Autechre track in that it is system oriented (various lengths of tape, looped so that they intersect each other at random intervals), and has no melody, rhythm, or structure.  The main difference seems to be that the sounds are soothing rather than abrasive.  Take a listen to the Eno track, and let me know what you think.  We can probably narrow things down from there.

Okay, Music For Airports I "get." Not my cuppa but it's ambient. It's soothing. I have words to describe. I have niches to classify. It fits somewhere and can deal with it.

I guess I'm questioning my own open-mindedness: do I fail to understand/like Gantz Graf simply because I can't force it to fit into my own concept of what music is supposed to be? To find words to describe it? Is it that my mind requires labels and neat, little boxes for things?

Or is it truly because it isn't music? Or do I simply not like it?

Ever the victim of my own refusal to close my mind and heart to any fucking thing, I can still only conclude that I'm not enjoying anything about listening to it.

Compare this to my opinion of crappy trance which actually creates a (possibly psychosomatic) adverse reaction in me.

I don't know why this is.

[Doktor Howl]

Okay, Music For Airports I "get." Not my cuppa but it's ambient. It's soothing.

No, it is not.  It creates terrorists.  Perfectly normal, rational people go into the airport, crazed madmen get onto the plane.

There is a reason for this, and his name is John Meyer.

[East Coast Hustle]

I was born with a natural ear and (from what I've been told) perfect pitch (I used to hum the dishwasher, cars and refrigerator as a child)

Not that this adds anything to the discussion. Are you sure about the above?

Generally, absolute pitch implies some or all of the following abilities when done without reference to an external standard:[4]

    Identify by name individual pitches (e.g. A, B, C♯) played on various instruments
    Name the key of a given piece of tonal music just by listening (without reference to an external tone)
    Identify and name all the tones of a given chord or other tonal mass
    Accurately sing a given pitch without an external reference
    Name the pitches of common everyday noises such as car horns


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_pitch

My niece is an opera singer with Perfect (or Absolute pitch). Her choir director uses her voice as a reference to tune the rest of the choir. She can identify any note you play and can reproduce any note you ask her to sing.

Not that this has anything to do with aesthetics, definitions of art etc. But I thought I'd ask.

No, I am not sure about the above. As far as the correct definition goes, I can't name the note because I'm untrained. I've known for some time I have an ear that transcends that of those around me and for years, I believed this was just a quirky side effect of being smarter than those around me. I could never understand why people would hum the wrong notes or "forget" a song's melody in recall when the sounds were so clear in my own head...like aural photographic memory. I could "hone in" and hum the strangest mechanical noises and annoy the shit out of caretakers who would giggle at first and then scream "STOP THAT" after I began to switch to different "notes" in the harmonic sound of the refrigerator or leaf blower or whatev.

I have no formal training. I'm also not as good at vocally reproducing sounds as I once was simply because the equipment (larynx) is unpracticed and getting older. I can still hear if I'm off and I can hear what the note is supposed to be if I crack and miss it.

I have a note that's "my" note. It's the same every time. When I wake up in the morning, I will hum the same note as when I went to bed. I've tested this with a voice recorder.

I don't know what that means. I assume it's the raw materials needed for perfect pitch if only I'd been allowed to explore it in younger years.

Not perfect pitch. That has a fairly strict definition and it goes way beyond being able to carry a tune from memory.

And for what it's worth, the bolded part would be reason enough to turn most posters into troll chum. I mean, we know it's YOU and the seemingly naieve pretentiousness is part of your charm, but that's pushing it a bit, don't you think?

[Triple Zero]

I guess I'm questioning my own open-mindedness: do I fail to understand/like Gantz Graf simply because I can't force it to fit into my own concept of what music is supposed to be? To find words to describe it? Is it that my mind requires labels and neat, little boxes for things?

Or is it truly because it isn't music? Or do I simply not like it?

Ever the victim of my own refusal to close my mind and heart to any fucking thing, I can still only conclude that I'm not enjoying anything about listening to it.

to answer your questions,
- it is music
- you obviously do not like it
- apparently you can't fit it into a satisfactory box either

however, now you're conflating a few things in your post above. what, exactly, is your problem with said track? because first you wonder why you don't understand it, "get" it, and then you wonder why you can't seem to get yourself to like/enjoy it.

these are not the same things.

and apparently it really bothers you that you can't seem to "get" it, while others do. and then you seriously wonder whether the others might be just pretending, cause they're "getting" something about music that you don't "get". take a good look at that behaviour, who is the pretentious one?

maybe this can solve it: I suppose you're smart enough to "get" it, if you really wanted to. but since you don't like it, you're not going to listen to it with the attention and intuition required to do so. and then, maybe if you do "get" it, maybe you already did, you still don't like what you hear so you're not sure at all whether what you think you just "got" is actually "it", because the track still doesn't bring you satisfaction. so there must be more to it, right?

or MAYBE you just don't like the track and should move on!!! hell there's a shitload of abstract noise glitch tracks that I don't like or "get", but my friends do. and also the other way around, some of them I absolutely love and they think it's just bzzzzzrttrtrtkkrzsch to them.

so yeah, isn't that funny? people like different things!

and then, sometimes the things they like tend to be a bit too far removed from the things you consider likeable, so you can't even imagine how somebody can like that! big deal?

what about sex? there's tons of sex-related things that people like that I can't imagine how they could like it, maybe some of them cause I haven't tried them properly, but others I have tried and I still don't really see the point and would prefer my sex without them. so are those things really sex? or are those people perhaps pretentious douchebags that pretend they like it, because obviously if I can't even possibly imagine what could be sexually arousing about such a thing ...




damn I feel like I explained the exact same thing in at least three different ways now.

go ahead, ask it

ask one more fucking time BUT WHY DON'T I "GET" GANTZ GRAF AND OTHER PEOPLE DO? BAAAAAWWWW!

[LMNO]

Oh, Lord.  Hipster Runoff.  What a wanker.

Anyway, there isn't really much to "get" about the track, if you take the process of how it was created off the table.

- It lacks structure
- It lacks melody
- It lacks rhythm
- It uses various kinds of digital distortion
- The distortion leads to a lot of piercing high frequencies

So the end result is a track that is both completely unpredictable (which can challenge/please the brain) and also repeatable (by hitting play again).  Which means you can get to a point where you're pretty sure what's coming next, but the amount of information being presented makes it difficult to predict with complete accuracy (which again, challenges/pleases the brain).

Have you heard any of Eno's Music For Airports?  It's similar to the Autechre track in that it is system oriented (various lengths of tape, looped so that they intersect each other at random intervals), and has no melody, rhythm, or structure.  The main difference seems to be that the sounds are soothing rather than abrasive.  Take a listen to the Eno track, and let me know what you think.  We can probably narrow things down from there.

Okay, Music For Airports I "get." Not my cuppa but it's ambient. It's soothing. I have words to describe. I have niches to classify. It fits somewhere and can deal with it.

I guess I'm questioning my own open-mindedness: do I fail to understand/like Gantz Graf simply because I can't force it to fit into my own concept of what music is supposed to be? To find words to describe it? Is it that my mind requires labels and neat, little boxes for things?

Or is it truly because it isn't music? Or do I simply not like it?

Ever the victim of my own refusal to close my mind and heart to any fucking thing, I can still only conclude that I'm not enjoying anything about listening to it.

Compare this to my opinion of crappy trance which actually creates a (possibly psychosomatic) adverse reaction in me.

I don't know why this is.

Quick diagnostic: Does this track make you feel similar or different than the Autechre track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSL7AngjjrE

[Triple Zero]

I definitely find Autechre more pleasant to listen to. And I'm fairly sure I "got" more of Gantz Graf on the first listen than this, on the first listen.

Is there a structure to it?

I'd re-listen and try to find out, but it's giving my molar-fillings PTSD relapses.

However, I mean that in the most respectful way possible. Because they're from Berlin and that means they know their shit when it comes to beer.

[East Coast Hustle]

I definitely find Autechre more pleasant to listen to. And I'm fairly sure I "got" more of Gantz Graf on the first listen than this, on the first listen.

Is there a structure to it?

I'd re-listen and try to find out, but it's giving my molar-fillings PTSD relapses.

However, I mean that in the most respectful way possible. Because they're from Berlin and that means they know their shit when it comes to beer.

Trip, I'm really glad that SOMEBODY on this site has their priorities straight.

[LMNO]

Trip just keeps pwning the fuck out of this thread.

[Bruno]

I think every generation just has to try harder and harder to make music that annoys the previous ones.

[Phox]

Oh, Lord.  Hipster Runoff.  What a wanker.

Anyway, there isn't really much to "get" about the track, if you take the process of how it was created off the table.

- It lacks structure
- It lacks melody
- It lacks rhythm
- It uses various kinds of digital distortion
- The distortion leads to a lot of piercing high frequencies

So the end result is a track that is both completely unpredictable (which can challenge/please the brain) and also repeatable (by hitting play again).  Which means you can get to a point where you're pretty sure what's coming next, but the amount of information being presented makes it difficult to predict with complete accuracy (which again, challenges/pleases the brain).

Have you heard any of Eno's Music For Airports?  It's similar to the Autechre track in that it is system oriented (various lengths of tape, looped so that they intersect each other at random intervals), and has no melody, rhythm, or structure.  The main difference seems to be that the sounds are soothing rather than abrasive.  Take a listen to the Eno track, and let me know what you think.  We can probably narrow things down from there.

Okay, Music For Airports I "get." Not my cuppa but it's ambient. It's soothing. I have words to describe. I have niches to classify. It fits somewhere and can deal with it.

I guess I'm questioning my own open-mindedness: do I fail to understand/like Gantz Graf simply because I can't force it to fit into my own concept of what music is supposed to be? To find words to describe it? Is it that my mind requires labels and neat, little boxes for things?

Or is it truly because it isn't music? Or do I simply not like it?

Ever the victim of my own refusal to close my mind and heart to any fucking thing, I can still only conclude that I'm not enjoying anything about listening to it.

Compare this to my opinion of crappy trance which actually creates a (possibly psychosomatic) adverse reaction in me.

I don't know why this is.

Quick diagnostic: Does this track make you feel similar or different than the Autechre track?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSL7AngjjrE

I think my ears are bleeding. 

I definitely find Autechre more pleasant to listen to. And I'm fairly sure I "got" more of Gantz Graf on the first listen than this, on the first listen.

Is there a structure to it?

I'd re-listen and try to find out, but it's giving my molar-fillings PTSD relapses.

However, I mean that in the most respectful way possible. Because they're from Berlin and that means they know their shit when it comes to beer.

Trip, I'm really glad that SOMEBODY on this site has their priorities straight.

[navkat]

Oh fucking hell. I don't *like* it then.

Maybe I am the pretentious one. Does that make me pretentious? That I'm trying to comprehend what others adore about this music?

The sex thing? Not a valid metaphor. I can compehend why people would like rockin the violet wand even if I don't do so myself. I can "get" why some ladies like cock in the ass even if I, myself am not a fan of the pink sock. Hell, I love to suck cocks. Some of my fellow fems aren't so inclined.

LOLMNO is on the right motorcycle...even if he is poking me in the ear at the same time. So I listen to the eno track...and I've deduced that: "No, it's not the lack of structure. I "get" the track with no structure," but it's not the lack of harmonics either. I "get" dnb...even if it's not my bag.

Is it the lack of any? Possibly. But I don't find it particularly offensive, either. Trance I find offensive.

So what makes it music, then? Seriously. I ask with no pretense or irony. I wanna know. Why do YOU like it? What am I missing?

@ECH: I only dare say that here. I find many of you to be my equals or better, intellectually-speaking. I know, know, know that most of you not only relate, you've managed to find ways to tolerate/compensate for the "misfit smarty-pance" syndrome. The naivete, in this case, is no troll.

[East Coast Hustle]

No worries, it was said with nothing but love.

but I think you're still getting hung up here. The sex metaphor is perfectly valid. Just because YOU get or don't get it doesn't mean there isn't something to be got.

For example, I literally cannot for the life of me understand why ANYONE would find sounding to be a pleasurable activity. but enough people do that I'm also willing to accept that it's my hangup for not getting it, not theirs for getting it.

There's really no difference between that and you not getting the Autechre track, you just hate to not get anything so much that you're trying too hard. It really is OK to just not like it and/or just not get it.

[LMNO]

Nav, if you got the same kind of response from the Neubauten track as you did from the Autechre track, but not with the Eno track, I might suggest that you have a bad reaction to arhythmic high pitched distortion.  All that buzzing, piercing noise, not being tied down with a recognizable beat, or any kind of repeating figure might be what you object to.

If you want to use SCIENCE, you could try lifting the last minute of the Autechre track, and laying it over a dub beat to see what happens.  If you find it more tolerable, then you've found your main sticking point.

So what makes it music, then?

It's a series of intended noises created by the composer.  No troll, that's how I have come to define music.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Nav, if you got the same kind of response from the Neubauten track as you did from the Autechre track, but not with the Eno track, I might suggest that you have a bad reaction to arhythmic high pitched distortion.  All that buzzing, piercing noise, not being tied down with a recognizable beat, or any kind of repeating figure might be what you object to.

If you want to use SCIENCE, you could try lifting the last minute of the Autechre track, and laying it over a dub beat to see what happens.  If you find it more tolerable, then you've found your main sticking point.

So what makes it music, then?

It's a series of intended noises created by the composer.  No troll, that's how I have come to define music.

THIS!