London Riots: An Alternate Juxtaposition

[Nephew Twiddleton]

I think this bears repeating. Iirc there were peaceful protests leading up to the riots and prior to duggans death.

[Adios]

One more thing, can we all please drop the "Poor Charley is recovering bullshit"? I am not a fucking China doll. I am a God, I shove 10 inches of plastic up my dick at least 5 times a day.

[Doktor Howl]

I think this bears repeating. Iirc there were peaceful protests leading up to the riots and prior to duggans death.

And they didn't fucking work.  They did nothing.

But we can't let anything happen to fat, dumb, and happy John Q Public, who condones if not actually endorses the very policies that ruined the world's economy, leaving a bunch of people with nothing to lose...and the policies which killed Duggan.

Fuck John Q Public.

[Nephew Twiddleton]

Precisely. The news and the authorities dont care about rallies. Riots do get their attention however.

[Adios]

I think this bears repeating. Iirc there were peaceful protests leading up to the riots and prior to duggans death.

And they didn't fucking work.  They did nothing.

But we can't let anything happen to fat, dumb, and happy John Q Public, who condones if not actually endorses the very policies that ruined the world's economy, leaving a bunch of people with nothing to lose...and the policies which killed Duggan.

Fuck John Q Public.

If the fox is guarding the henhouse and chickens keep coming up missing, sooner or later you're going to have to shoot the fox.

[Elder Iptuous]

Not having followed the ME riots (or the London riots) terribly closely, i'm curious...  was there widespread looting and violence directed towards civilians in the ME?  i don't recall that.  if not, how did they get the attention of the news and authorities, otherwise?

why would you suspect that?

Because I am a jaded and tired old man and I have seen things like this end up there far too many times.

Well, why would we want to steer the conversation in that direction, Charley?  if there was racism involved in the reasoning, it would come to light of its own accord.  i don't think that bringing it up without such indication is beneficial...
also, i'll give respect to anyone that endures unwanted sounding multiple times a day!  

[Adios]

Not having followed the ME riots (or the London riots) terribly closely, i'm curious...  was there widespread looting and violence directed towards civilians in the ME?  i don't recall that.  if not, how did they get the attention of the news and authorities, otherwise?

why would you suspect that?

Because I am a jaded and tired old man and I have seen things like this end up there far too many times.

Well, why would we want to steer the conversation in that direction, Charley?  if there was racism involved in the reasoning, it would come to light of its own accord.  i don't think that bringing it up without such indication is beneficial...
also, i'll give respect to anyone that endures unwanted sounding multiple times a day!  

I wasn't steering a thing, I simply responded to what I read.

[Doktor Howl]

Not having followed the ME riots (or the London riots) terribly closely, i'm curious...  was there widespread looting and violence directed towards civilians in the ME?  i don't recall that.  if not, how did they get the attention of the news and authorities, otherwise?

why would you suspect that?

Because I am a jaded and tired old man and I have seen things like this end up there far too many times.

Well, why would we want to steer the conversation in that direction, Charley?  if there was racism involved in the reasoning, it would come to light of its own accord.  i don't think that bringing it up without such indication is beneficial...
also, i'll give respect to anyone that endures unwanted sounding multiple times a day!  

I don't think DP had race in mind at all.  Instead, he had the myth of the entrepreneur in mind.  The idea that these guys are the salt of the Earth, and must be protected from taxation that pays for their roads, and the anger brought their way from their own complacency.

[Elder Iptuous]

oh, ok.
i thought you were injecting race into a conversation that didn't have mention of it heretofore.
i'll step away.

[Adios]

Not having followed the ME riots (or the London riots) terribly closely, i'm curious...  was there widespread looting and violence directed towards civilians in the ME?  i don't recall that.  if not, how did they get the attention of the news and authorities, otherwise?

why would you suspect that?

Because I am a jaded and tired old man and I have seen things like this end up there far too many times.

Well, why would we want to steer the conversation in that direction, Charley?  if there was racism involved in the reasoning, it would come to light of its own accord.  i don't think that bringing it up without such indication is beneficial...
also, i'll give respect to anyone that endures unwanted sounding multiple times a day!  

I don't think DP had race in mind at all.  Instead, he had the myth of the entrepreneur in mind.  The idea that these guys are the salt of the Earth, and must be protected from taxation that pays for their roads, and the anger brought their way from their own complacency.

Quite possibly. Six of one and half a dozen of the other IMO.

[Adios]

oh, ok.
i thought you were injecting race into a conversation that didn't have mention of it heretofore.
i'll step away.

No need to step away, if I can't defend what I said then I should have kept my mouth shut. 

[Disco Pickle]

I'm not entirely convinced that the violent rioters, the thieving and murdering sort, would know what to do with change if it were dropped on their door step.  No, I don't think they'd be in a better place through letter writing.  Civil public discourse has been shown to bring people to a cause who might not otherwise have been willing to listen.  The "have nothings" taking rage out on the "have a bit and working to have more" means there's very little chance of getting them that could most sympathize with them, on their sides.  They could be a loud and un-ignorable voice, but it's pissed away by opportunists.

I think that the biggest mistake you are making is in believing that there is a "violent rioter" type of person. There is not. There is no us and them, there is only us when we're pushed far enough.

That's what makes the question of why they felt pushed too far the most relevant one.

Ok, I understand that argument, but there are people who would go out and fuck shit up just to fuck shit up if they thought they could get away with it, and wouldn't need any more reason than they thought they could get away with it.  Those people exist, and there's maybe more of them than you're taking into consideration.  Those are the sorts I meant.

[ETA] The sort of human whose behavior elicits the "this is why we can't have nice things" meme.

That fairly accurately describes all young men. Ever.

But it more accurately describes disenfranchised young men with little or nothing to lose.

You seem to think that there is a "type" of person for whom fucking shit up for the pleasure of it is inborn. Psychologists call them "sociopaths", and they are fairly rare. So what we are looking at is young men who are in an environment that causes them to feel they have little or nothing to lose. That means that those young men are interchangeable with any other young men anywhere in the world. Including you.

I know, I used to be one of those young men.  I suppose it's the type you mention that I'm referring to. 

[Disco Pickle]

One more thing, can we all please drop the "Poor Charley is recovering bullshit"? I am not a fucking China doll. I am a God, I shove 10 inches of plastic up my dick at least 5 times a day.

Duly noted.  But given the above admission, don't mind if I leave the gloves on, so to speak.

[Adios]

One more thing, can we all please drop the "Poor Charley is recovering bullshit"? I am not a fucking China doll. I am a God, I shove 10 inches of plastic up my dick at least 5 times a day.

Duly noted.  But given the above admission, don't mind if I leave the gloves on, so to speak.

[Disco Pickle]

Not having followed the ME riots (or the London riots) terribly closely, i'm curious...  was there widespread looting and violence directed towards civilians in the ME?  i don't recall that.  if not, how did they get the attention of the news and authorities, otherwise?

why would you suspect that?

Because I am a jaded and tired old man and I have seen things like this end up there far too many times.

Well, why would we want to steer the conversation in that direction, Charley?  if there was racism involved in the reasoning, it would come to light of its own accord.  i don't think that bringing it up without such indication is beneficial...
also, i'll give respect to anyone that endures unwanted sounding multiple times a day!  

I don't think DP had race in mind at all.  Instead, he had the myth of the entrepreneur in mind.  The idea that these guys are the salt of the Earth, and must be protected from taxation that pays for their roads, and the anger brought their way from their own complacency.

Certainly a lot of anger should go to complacent/complicit electorate.  It should also be directed to the ones who can but don't vote.  

I'm beginning to come around to your side of seeing it Dok.   I completely agree, that anger was justified and properly directed.

Still think that the murders hurt their cause.