London Riots: An Alternate Juxtaposition

[Disco Pickle]

Yeah, this is going to be popular here.   

Fuck it, I was bored and have been thinking that there's a lot of back and forth on the tubes about this still and little of it seems to be talking about the victims of the riots.  The people who were murdered.  The people who lost everything they've invested their life, time and sweat and money to build.

[Disco Pickle]

This one isn't a jab at you Cram.  Just another view.  I respect what you're doing, I just think it's a bit one sided.

[Cain]

Actually it's more like People Killed by Police: 200

I mean, unless we're just going by the last two weeks.

And we can throw in People Killed By British Government in Foreign Conflicts: 100,000+

[Disco Pickle]

Actually it's more like People Killed by Police: 200

I mean, unless we're just going by the last two weeks.

And we can throw in People Killed By British Government in Foreign Conflicts: 100,000+

I was just going by the spark that ignited the keg.  As long as there is a state, there will be killings by people acting on behalf of the state. 

--Pickle, preaching to the choir here

[Cain]

Well, the government has decided it has the moral authority to lecture the rest of the country, so I think including their actual track record is only fair.

[Disco Pickle]

Well, the government has decided it has the moral authority to lecture the rest of the country, so I think including their actual track record is only fair.

And that's more than fair. 

More than they deserve even.  Now if only such protests took place against the government, we might be on a motorcycle before the beginning of the next century.

[P3nT4gR4m]

Riots are a symptom, not a statement. Tactically useless unless you opt to use one as a smokescreen for something organised.

[Cramulus]

This one isn't a jab at you Cram.  Just another view.  I respect what you're doing, I just think it's a bit one sided.

Here is the point I'm making

when people reach the boiling point, something is wrong.

How they act when they reach that boiling point varies... sometimes it's a democratic protest, other times its flipping over cars and smashing windows. How they react is partly due to the environment. (what's that quote ... "those who make peaceful protest impossible make violent protest inevitable")

There are mechanisms in place whose job it is to neutralize these actions - to make them look like it's just a bunch of kids and greedy niggers.

My point is to juxtapose imagery of what people consider "legitimate" disobedience with quotes attempting to de-legitimatize the reasons people are rioting.

All the legitimate instances of civil disobedience in this country were blasted by the media at the time. That happens any time you rock the status quo. So I want people to be more skeptical of the media's handling of these things. The media's job is to make it into a story, a sound byte ------ but it's not as simple as that!

If you look at the london riots as a form of protest, it does seem very ineffective. It's just a bunch of unfocused rage. They're not using the "official and accepted channels" to change society for the better. By the law, they should have pursued legal action against the cops that killed Duggan. But the rioters don't think they can accomplish anything that way. What does that leave?

If your takeaway from this is is that the youth of London are irresponsible, you are both correct and missing the point.

[Disco Pickle]

Media has been the mouthpiece of the powerful for a long time and it's good to see it changing with alternate media sources (provided they aren't eventually shut down for "inciting riots" or "encouraging violence" or some other made up reason) available to people who want to go find them.  I don't hold out hope that suddenly people who prefer the Clockwork Orange method of getting their media will suddenly change, but then I can't be an optimist about everything.

I get exactly what you're doing and again it wasn't a jab at you or what you're saying.  I didn't want to muck up your thread with some cognitive dissonance from another view point and so I started my own. 

Rational support for the riots should have ended the minute people started to be murdered for defending themselves and their property from being stolen.  That doesn't mean I think the reasons should still not be dissected and discussion to happen about the rotting foundations that led to this.

[Cramulus]

this brings to mind an image
from our buddy Bobby Campbell:

[Disco Pickle]

Saw that in the pic thread I think.  It posits that capitalism is a weapon used for killing people or at the very least, that death of people is it's only use or ultimate end.

I've read a bit of the Chaos Marxism stuff from the links you've posted (not sure if it's you who wrote it) and we're not going to agree on very much on the economics front.

[Doktor Howl]

Yeah, this is going to be popular here.   

Fuck it, I was bored and have been thinking that there's a lot of back and forth on the tubes about this still and little of it seems to be talking about the victims of the riots.  The people who were murdered.  The people who lost everything they've invested their life, time and sweat and money to build.

Obviously, this sort of thing cannot be allowed.  We must find a way to make the rioters see the value of The Perfect State™.

[Disco Pickle]

Meant more along the lines of someone should tell them their doing it wrong.

Make a sign, with distance to the capital?

Point in the right direction?

[Cramulus]

Saw that in the pic thread I think.  It posits that capitalism is a weapon used for killing people or at the very least, that death of people is it's only use or ultimate end.

I'm not seeing the part of the image that says capitalism is only useful for killing people

What I see is that it's confusing to identify the real "cause" of violence,

and also that we are blind to some forms violence because they are inherent to a system we like.

I've read a bit of the Chaos Marxism stuff from the links you've posted (not sure if it's you who wrote it) and we're not going to agree on very much on the economics front.

wait - who's talking about chaos marxism ITT?

it's not my blog, and please don't assume that because I read a blog and occasionally x-post from it, I agree with everything Doloras says. I love the way she thinks and writes, but we do disagree on plenty.

[Doktor Howl]

Meant more along the lines of someone should tell them their doing it wrong.

Make a sign, with distance to the capital?

Point in the right direction?

Maybe they should write The Times.

Because, you know, following the rules has worked SO well for the last decade or so.